hurray

mmm php.ini has 1337 lines

how erhm, leet

somone here who has ever tried to upload through a http lib like libcurl to twiki ?

i use perl to upload files to http

damn open basedir restriction crap

incomplete headers (0 bytes) received from server"
I'm trying to get spyce working with FastCGI, and can't get it working
anybody have any experience with FastCGI?

hey friends

Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me. I'm going to go eat WormZ.

+1

fajita++

+1

Back off, freak.

fajita is marvin

hello
I guess i have a serious security problem, the authz_host Modul doesn't deny access to .ht* files on apache 2.2
:/
It is loaded
mod_auth_basic mod_authn_file mod_authz_default mod_authz_groupfile mod_authz_host mod_authz

you need Files section in your configuration to prevent accessing files

I have it in my apache2.conf
# grep "^Files" apache2.conf
Files ~ "^\.ht"
Order deny,allow \ Deny from all
seems does not work right

http://rafb.net/p/zqGJG782.html
as you can see i get two consecutive 302's, one from "/" to "/FSCWEB/index.html" and then from "/FSCWEB/index.html" to ""/FSCWEB/logon.do"

and are you sure this apache2.conf is your main configuration file? how does it not work, does it still serve .htaccess to browser?

i can't imagine my apache2.conf causing that second redirection

Yes, it is my main config file, because everything works like expected, excepting the .htaccess stuff.
Is serve the file to the user.
http://dpaste.com/16547/
my apache config
stripped out all comments
http://dpaste.com/16548/
And my modules

You are work yet, arreyder?

hello everybody

hi

niihau, BottomFunqus.

anyone recognize this error in the error.log?
Premature end of JPEG file
it's pretty selvexplaining, but if anyone has ever been under attack etc. that has given this kind of a sign, please give me a shout
no?
this silence gives me the creeps
not even sarcasm

this is the twilight-zone of IRC.

There's a signpost over there, and it reads "The Windows Zone"

heh
I'm doing a weekly check on all the logs and this line in error.log caught my eye
we have once got attacked trough a hack script that was implemented to a gif-image

invalid jpeg file? or is that file somehow dynamic (served with script…)?

huh?

Please state the nature of your computing emergency

most likely its just a invalid jpeg-file
the error.log is crappy because it doesn't give more specific information

Try requesting that image, and see if you can reproduce the error?

there is no information about the script, the file or anything
only that line

Does the jpeg in question exist?

no idea
as i said, there is no information about the name

Oh!
I misunderstood.

there are hundreds of scripts on that server + dozens of users

I thought you were saying it said like "premature end of $x.jpeg"

nope

men.. this sucks.

Perhaps you can get an idea by checking the access_log for the corresponding time?

that would be normal way of logging, but are talking about apache error.logs here

you might be able to locate the file by comparing timestamp to access_log, depending on the number or requests in a time

might be

I dont even know why this f*cking apache doesnt handle the .htaccess file right

could try

haha, beat ya to it.

and serve them up to the user

should it be matching? the timestamp i mean

..htaccess: Option MultiViews not allowed here

-multiviews?

ok I'm a bit puzzled as I did an apt-get install apache2 and nothing works on my http://localhost/

section in httpd.conf, or (if AllowOverride is properly set) in .htaccess files."

yeah. It seems I can't write and read simultaneously

multiviews

multiviews is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#options or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_negotiation.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/content-negotiation.html

options override

Options may be used in .htaccess files if AllowOverride is set to Options

Allowoverride Options

Allowoverride Options is necesarry for Options to be allowed there.

gtfo

Well, at least in most circumstances that's not a serious limitation.

yes, but how do i set AllowOverride correctly?

Allowoverride Options

Allowoverride Options is necesarry for Options to be allowed there.

debian etch + apache is a hellcombo, there isnt even a working auth-mysql module with that combo

signed

haha

thanks

—-There is no timestamp in the error.log —
nice apache
i think apache is causing my funquz

when I type sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart, the output says it has stopped but nothing about starting

_

and it's not in my process list

do you know what you should do

tell me BottomFunqus

you should go to the local shop, buy some booze, shake your ass in the local bar and snatch some lady. Bang her ass the whole night and try restarting your apache again tomorrow

What does /etc/ini.d/apache2 configtest say?

sounds good but I need to do a bit of work BottomFunqus
nothing Hazard

Nothing at all?

nope
nothing

nothing is _ALWAYS_ a wrong answer/description.

everything

everything is ruined forever!

fajita fajita

i am a she.

fajita is a boy

is fajita she?

Fajita is a eunuch.

fajita is a shemale
shemale
someone has really got some freetime to build this fajita
there must be thousands of lines

IT doesn't require as much as you'd think. It's taught as it goes.

it's selflearning?

No. There are commands to tell it what associations to make.

i was just kidding

There is one that learns on it's own in ##perl, but it merely strings together random sentences.

blah, i need a super artificial intelligence

https://euphoria-workshop.dnsalias.com/
?

that would in the end take over the world and make me the king

I need superior natural intelligence.

i've got it

Looks like you just need to update the version of SSL on that server.

mensa.org

it's a xampp 1.6.3

mensa blows.

and it's latest stable release :-s

And xampp includes SSL?

the people there arent the best ones to represent the brightest people on earth

yes

And screw them and their "dues"

http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

should the following conf statement give recursive cgiExec access?
http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=2434

if by recursive you mean, "all subdirectories of /var/www/html", yes

ok, weird - becuase it doesn't
if i specify a specific folder, fine
but not sub-directories

it could be overridden in some subdirectory by another configuration

ok, thanks

or by an .htaccess file

hello all

All is not in today, gui_

hello everybody ?
so i want to have coredump to child process exited
i think this is xcache that do this, but i'm not sure
i did this in httpd.conf: CoreDumpDirectory /tmp
but there is no coredump in /tmp… (apache1.3.37)
any suggestions ?

that server does not have ssl certificates enabled for port 443

how you see that ?
what can I do to enable correctly this ?

http://euphoria-workshop.dnsalias.com:443/

when I am doing that, I have some responses and some error
about an old version of SSL
so apache listen 44
443

443 is default port for ssl

did you click on the link that i just pasted?

Yes …

are there not instructions in xampp for how to correctly enable ssl?

I think there an incompatibility with virtualhost
en configuration of ssl

you need to have a virtualhost for port 443, with the ssl configuration in it.

http://apache.pastebin.ca/652423
ssl.conf file
and vhosts.conf
http://apache.pastebin.ca/652424
in ssl.conf there a virtualhost part

yes, that looks ok.
did you add listen 443 to your configuration somewhere?

in the ssl.conf

it was there already, right?

Listen *:443

yes, i see it
i was wondering if you added another one somewhere else

I am getting an error " cannot bind to ip address " when starting apache
What can be the exact remedy measure?
o.o.o.o:443

what is the exact error?

Hold on let me fetch it
Unable to manage service by websrvmng: websrvmng: Service httpd failed to start ——————————————————————————– 0: /usr/local/psa/admin/htdocs/server/restart_services.php:19 psaerror(string "Unable to make action: Unable to manage service by websrvmng: websrvmng: Service httpd failed to start")

um, from the error log, preferably
that phrase "deja vu" seems oddly familiar….

verily

indubitably

certainement

oui

ping

hrm… well that was interesting… :-/

hi

How do you configure a vhost to have "directory listings" disabled?

options -indexes

Options -Indexes turns off directory indexing. Ask me about mod_autoindex and Options for more details.

thanks

read this:
sections
section?
argh….
context?
where is that factoid…..
ok, i don't know where the 'bot went.
but what i was going to point you at is the section of the manual where it describes the order in which Options and other directives are applied

sections is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/sections.html
context is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/directive-dict.html#Context http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/directive-dict.html#Context http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/directive-dict.html#Context

ah, there it is
read the first one

section? I have an OPTIONS Indexes Includes ExecCGI

just add -Indexes

remove indexes
don't mix +/- options with absolute ones
Options

Options is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#options or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/core.html#options or see 'Options Context' Don't mix 'relative' and 'absolute' values. See: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/apache/2005/09/08/apacheckbk.html

read the last link

hrm kinda limited in what I can do, since I'm using a vhosting account.
Removed Indexes but the files still show up might be cached
http://w8nyy.olympuschess.com/Files/
does that throw a Directory not listing for you?

it does

section did you edit? It has to be the right one to apply.

DIRECTORY /hsphere/local/home/olympus/w8nyy.olympuschess.com
OPTIONS Includes ExecCGI FollowSymLinks
AllowOverride All

AllowOverride All is a really bad idea, because it implies AllowOverride Options, which lets people do stuff like Options FollowSymlinks and Options ExecCGI, even though they are explicitly disabled in the main config.

/DIRECTORY
hrm

if you have another one for Files, the other one will apply
also if you have one in an .htaccess file

?
never could figure out .htaccess lol

then set allowoverride None
that will stop apache from even looking for them
speeds it up and makes things less confusing

but this site is for a friend, so wanted to set it up apache geronimo server hosting side so I wouldnt have to make manual changes each time

are you allowed to restart the vhost?
if not, you'll have to wait for a restart before your change takes effect.

no
ooh so that's why it wasn't updating
that sucks

apachectl graceful

apachectl graceful is how you restart apache without dropping any client connections. Workers in keepalive will retain old config until they time out. Be patient, or set KeepAliveTimeout lower

Well I appreciate everyones help hope you have a good day and weekend

how do you troubleshoot a child segfault in apache? the only thing causing it appears to be Horde

Hi , I wanna make a little module and i want it to return the homedir of the user that is defined ( Just a try ) . but apache segfault when i enable it. I dont really know how id do it in a apache module. right now i try doing it with the unix pw-pw_dir.

userdir

userdir is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/howto/public_html.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_userdir.html or See userdir without ~

thats not the problem

oh ok
#httpd-modules

Its just a test now because i wanna implement that in another module

#apache-modules

#apache-modules is Bmodule coders… pretty quiet though. You will have to be patient

ok
tanks

what's the factoid for niq's book?

modules book

modules book is http://www.apachetutor.org/

thanks
^^ highly recommended

aha
ill ahve a look

niq fact

What goes up and never comes down? The dumb ass that gets beard-whipped by Nick Kew.

the first step is to enable core dumps.

–enable-exception-hook
mod_whatkilledus

mod_whatkilledus is at http://people.apache.org/~trawick/ , and reports exact details of a request that caused a crash

although another approach is to just disable modules one at a time until you find the one which is segfaulting

mod_backtrace

mod_backtrace is at http://www.apache.org/~trawick/exception_hook.html and http://www.apache.org/~trawick/exception_hook_13.html

oh, right, or those useful modules

hee hee
rici++
blame php

PHP should be presumed to be at fault until conclusively proven otherwise. And even thereafter, if it's convenient.

hello
how can I certificate/ validate an SSL certification home generated ?

did you solve your other problem?
you can use openssl to view certificates. i'm not sure what you mean by validate.
you can use openssl to view certificates. i'm not sure what you mean by validate.

yes

where can i finds apache giudes

all work fine now

tell pctony

what?

heh

why

because

Can you be more specific as to what you're looking for?

It was an incompatibility between virtual host en ssl configuration
in virtualhost it was virtualhosts *

ah

hi i want to make a web site

and to work with ssl certificates I have to do Virtualhost *:80

i also want to secure mythweb

rici im pretty sure it is php, but i need to know why

So when 443 it isn't use by virtualhost
and SSL works fine

is a bad idea

enable core dumps and look at the core dump, then.
coredumpdirectory

coredumpdirectory is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mpm_common.html#coredumpdirectory or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#coredumpdirectory

how do you enable the core dumps?

Those desires are sufficiently large that I'm not sure how to address them.
Are you having a specific problem that you'd like to ask about?
Or are you looking for a general-purpose howto manual of some kind?

first, you use the directive i pointed you at
then, you do whatever is necessary on your OS to allow coredumps

yess. i cant get mythweb to ask for a password… i have tried every thing. please help

I've never used mythweb. I'm not even sure what it is. Is this an Apache configuration question, or is it a mythweb configuration question.

also dose any one use backuppc

And what, specifically, have you tried?

to set up a password… so that i go to localhost/mythweb it will ask for password

what have you tried, i think was the question

You're going to need to be more specific. What, specifically, have you done? Show us your configuration file(s).

well that's what you get for thinking, isnt it?

Is this in a .htaccess file, or in the main config.

its a htacces

:-)

yeah… i keep forgetting thinking's dangerous

Show us your .htaccess file.

ok one sec

apc

Try using http://apache.pastebin.ca - It's a good pastebin, and is even set up to highlight Apache 'stuff'. or Alternative PHP Cache and does what php refuses to do: Optimize fajita's PHP code. http://pecl.php.net/package/APC

You need to provide us with data in order for us to speculate as to the cause of the problem.

today's weather forcast calls for a 99% chance of luser error

Meanwhile, I've been called to a lunch meeting. But I'm certain that there's 100+ people here who can help you with basic auth questions.

*forecast

ttfn

buen provecho
hope the meeting doesn't get in the way

any one know how to "select all" in nano ?
htacces http://pastebin.com/d7f00fdc1

Hi, is this just for the httpd, or is it also for other apache oprojects?

apache

Ambiguous! I'm looking for help with flood, the http load tester.. Somewhere lse, or here?

on irc, you get nowhere asking to ask
ask your question. if someone knows, they'll answer.

Generally you encounter large amounts of hostility asking in the wrong channels. I'm wondering if flood can use a proxy?

don't interpret "please ask in #foo" as hostile …. i thought flood could use a proxy, yes. i don't remember how to configure it.

that seems like a proxy configuration.

Excellent. I hadn't even gotten to the point of downloading yet - just doing a bit of initial research. Thanks rici.

good niht all thnaks for today
have a nice weekend

This seems crazy
LogFormat "%h %t \"%r %{SSL_PROTOCOL}x\" %{Content-Length}i %s %b %D \"%{User-Agent}i %c(%P)\" \"%{Referer}i\""
It's clear that the %{SSL_PROTOCOL}x is trying to print that env var
but http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/mod_log_config.html doesn't show it as being valid.
and 2.2 doesn't accept it at all.
Right now we're getting a "-" there.
is 1.3 just sloppy on this?

logformat

logformat is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_log_config.html#logformat

what is the directive to allow users to access their own page like… www.site.com/~user

userdir?

userdir is http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/howto/public_html.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_userdir.html or See userdir without ~

ah, yes. thanks

You're welcome. Have a nice day.

I know what the docs say about the logformat
The docs don't show %{var}x as being valid, and yet it seems to work.

does any one use mod_python?

no, nobody - it's a wholly unused piece of software
in fact, its number of users is negative

huh

Please state the nature of your computing emergency

i just get a weird error from some basic demo code

adaptr++

hello

privet, maxwildcat.

anyone any dieas?
http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=2440
*ideas

has anyone had to handle load balancing with apache 1.3
(yea i know its a headach … but the platform only uses it)
or a least if someone has ever had to install mod_proxy_balancer on 1.3

that's telling you that there is a syntax error in /var/www/html/bizMan/incs/apps/ipAngel/dialog/python.psp

sure, ok, i moved the import statement to the top, and all's good
tho I get a big 'OK' and apache tells me the page hasn't loaded - but I'm loading at it
weird
https://gateway.phasian.com/bizMan/incs/apps/ipAngel/dialog/python.psp
does any one know why it would do that?

view source
looks like you're sending two pages, one of them an error page.
and no, i have no idea what bug causes that.

is that an apache thing?

unlikely.

Mod_python error — which part is unclear?

is there a module that can process html right before it gets sent to the client? e.g. regardless of the content being fed to apache by html, php, perl and the likes, I'd like to do profanity word filtering

mod_speling

mod_speling is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_speling.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_speling.html

aaargh!!! that's evil!

yep
but that does url spelling, not content filtering
probably with mod_ext_filter?
bingo

and bingo was his name-o.

hmm, I bet proxy_html could be preverted to do some filtering.

what is this?

is this is the only vhost defined

this is sparta

mod_ext_filter

mod_ext_filter is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_ext_filter.html or Lets you define your own Apache 2.0 filters, in whatever language amuses you.

what is this?

is this is the only vhost defined

bah

humbug

:|

mod_fcgid

mod_fcgid is like mod_fastcgi, but uses a new process management strategy, which concentrates on reducing the number of fastcgi server. or at http://fastcgi.coremail.cn/. See also http://paul.querna.org/journal/articles/2006/01/01/using-mod_fcgid-for-ruby-on-rails-applications

mmm apache 2.2
i cant find a package for apache 2.0.x any idea?
Cannot load /etc/httpd/modules/mod_fcgid.so into server: /etc/httpd/modules/mod_fcgid.so: undefined symbol: apr_shm_remove

apr

apr is a library that httpd is built on top of. Apache Portable Runtime: http://apr.apache.org/. see also http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2006/04/27/gift_to_c/

version mismatch, most likely

mmmm so… i will need "upgrade" to 2.2.x for use mod_fcgid?

could be

2.2.x is an upgrade from 2.0.x and lower.

what about PHP?
:P

I cannot plausibly deny that I do not use it, as cacti still teh bombz0rz

I think you got lost in the maze of negations there

we run over 100 windows boxen, and even if we did not need *nix for mail and DNS, we would use it to run cacti alone…
I think you may or may not be mistakenly correct

cacti does not happen to have requirements such as: http://www.jffnms.org/jffnms/INSTALL [take a look at the php.ini settings and the LimitRequestLine]

well, this register_globals = On is mildly annoying, but allow_url_fopen = On ouch…

btw, has cacti gotten better at bulk graph management? when I last checked it, oh, 5 years or so ago, you had to click-create every darn graph, which is fine for one monitored box, but doesn't even scale to 10

if I got that right, that's PHP default anyways….

url_fopen is the single biggest security monster php host has to offer
jMCg not anymore it isn't
Guy- cacti 0.86i (or whatever it is now) lets you template host (device) types and create everything for them in one go - or at most two
Guy- it also allows you to re-template graphs in bulk

sounds good

We have one template for an HP DL320, which has a dual CPU we have a graph template for, but it doesn't fill it with the correct sources
so create a dozen DL320 hosts, select the cpu on all, and select "change graph template" - done
it's mighty fast, and since version .86 or so also lets you choose a time period from the overview screen - change it from last day to one hour, or a month, or a year, or 12-3-07 to 26-4-07, whatever suits you
I hardly ever open the full graphs anymore

maybe I'll give it a try again

you really should - there's tons of templates for anything that does SNMP
even at home, I have it graphing network, apache, mysql, postfix, storage and DNS statistics

I ended up using munin for most such things

I looked at it for 5 minutes, found it horrible in the extreme, and dumped it
once you've set up cacti (takes about an hour) everything else is clickety click

I don't necessarily consider that to be an advantage

I do remember the older cactii, where you had to do quite a lot of hand-configuring
that's all gorn now!
that depends on the service, really - for cacti, which you can configure upwards of a million different ways, having to hand-edit stuff would be torture

well, you can script-edit a textfile
but sure, that's possible with cacti to some extent as it stores its configuration in a database, iirc

all of it, yes

of course, scripting is somewhat more difficult because you have to worry about referential integrity

try it out soon, and see if you still think you would like to edit that stuff by hand

hey guys, is there a quick way I can use SuppressLastModified for all files EXCEPT those under a particular directory? I'd appreciate any help on this.

with munin, almost everything is automatic, btw

I did not find it to be of any use AT ALL

IndexOptions can be set per directory. Set it globally, and then set it for that directory.

also, isn't that meant to monitor stuff ? cacti does graphing, period

not meant to monitor availability, although it can based on thresholds for the data it retrieves

alas, that doesn't work very well though
anyway, I think we're blatantly off-topic

depends on the data.
I use nagios though
for monitoring that is.

my problem was that munin often thought it had read a value of zero, when in fact it didn't
it was OK in the graph, but the threshold component complained

hmm
hello all

All is not in today, DARKGirl

ok, apache is unable to create a secure connection
using https:
do any of you know how to make it secure compatible?

is it listening to the correct port?

What exactly do you mean?
What, exactly, does the error log say?

what is error_log message, what is your configuration?

moment, ill have to track down the error log

ssl?

ssl is *Secure Sockets Layer. Ask me about mod_ssl or ssl vhosts see also http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/ssl/

7 2007] [error] [client 66.25.169.25] Invalid method in request
thats the latest error

you're tryint to connect to a http port with https [or vice versa]

That means that an https request is … what jMCg said.

well I am using a non standard port to connect to my server
because my isp blocks 80
so I use 8080

DARKGirl you still have to tell your browser how to connect, if it's https, do https://foobar.tld:8080/

right right, but then safari tells me this:
Safari can?t open the page ?https://mywebhopserver.c0denamemercury.com:8080/phpmyadmin/scripts/setup.php? because it couldn?t establish a secure connection to the server ?mywebhopserver.c0denamemercury.com?.

Do you have SSLEngine On for the 8080 virtual host?

so im guessing that i dont have something turned on

Please show us your VirtualHost block for the 8080 virtualhost.

un momento

hey, any ubuntu users here? I'm using Feisty Fawn, apt-installed Apache and Awstats. However, when I attempt to goto http://localhost/cgi-bin apache tries to resolve /var/www/cgi-bin rather than /usr/lib/cgi-bin. Any ideas?

http://pastebin.com/d2a69605c

Greetings

greetings user

I see not a trace of SSL configuration anywhere in there, so it would certainly seem that you're experiencing the expected behavior.
solution?

Don't do that.

he nice

ssl example

ssl example is http://people.apache.org/~rbowen/presentations/slide83.html

fajita has a sarcastic mode

sorry…

nope.. she's always like that

There's an ssl example configuration. If you don't have at least that in a vhost, it's not going to answer to SSL.

aye, the person that helped me install apache 2 told me i wouldnt need ssl unless the site was ecommerce

Whether or not one "needs" ssl hosting is a matter of opinion.

so.. try this: http://mywebhopserver.c0denamemercury.com:8080/phpmyadmin/scripts/setup.php
without the S
just http://

it works

Damn right it does

but it gives me a warning

which one?

And that warning is .. ?

You are not using secure connection, all data (including sensitive, like passwords) are transfered unencrypted! If your server is also configured to accept HTTPS request follow this link to use secure connection.

so far so good, then

interesting.. phpmyadmin it nerver show me that before

wow

[ foo] thumbs: Could a segfault cause apache to prompt the user to download a php file instead of view it?

or i dont remember

a certificate file? O_o

and a CA

a ca is certificate authority

try this: http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/Apache/apache-SSL.html

That warning message is expected, right?
If you don't feel you need https, then don't use https.
I'm unclear why this is a problem.
Do you feel that you need https?

well I would like it to be secure…I would feel safer with the data that is put on this server

ok.
Well, there you go, then.
ssl howto

ssl howto is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/ssl/

looks like i need to install OpenSSL hmm

so then maybe is also a good idea use client certificates

OpenSSL

OpenSSL is da set of cryptographic libraries. mod_ssl uses those libraries to implement https handling in apache
uOpenSSL is da set of cryptographic libraries. mod_ssl uses those libraries to implement https handling in apache/u

why not?

If you're on any modern Unix, openssl is already there. You need to add mod_ssl to your server.
Because that's a level of complexity beyond what we're likely to accomplish today.

ahh ok ok..well yeah.. agreed
was just an idea

ok, LoadModule ssl_module modules/mod_ssl.so is there
called my brother and he told me I dont need SSL
and to disregard that message
but I still dont know how to set this up properly

have a quick question about log rotation on apache2.2
CustomLog "|/usr/local/apache/bin/rotatelogs /var/log/access_log 86400" common
i understand that this means it will rotate every 86,400 seconds
but what im curious about is what happens if the server is bounced
does it say every 86,400 seconds from the time the server starts, or from teh first time the log was written to?

yes

yes to the first time the log was written to?

yes

:P

cool

actually, not sure
it might be when the apache server first starts… well, it does write to the error log when the server starts
so *shrugs*
it may be an irrelevent distinction

well, here is a possibility…i start the server, 5 hours later, it gets restarted….so at that point its logged for 5 hours…then if it takes another 24 hours before it rotates, its going to mess up a script that i have that fetches the logs and pushes to a webalizer box
and i guess the log.1, log.2, log.3, etc is not possible anymore with rotatelogs…correct?

never was
rotatelogs is it's own thing
you could always roll your own log rotation and put it on a set cronjob

ya, migrating from apache 1.3 to apache 2.2
na, i'll just rewrite my fetch script

*shrugs* either way

will just have it grab "yesterdays" file
not a biggie, just wanting to figure it out before i start making config changes and re-writing a script

I like to generate stats from tomorrow's log file. Helps me plan.

haha

You around?

yep

Feel up to figuring out why I'm still getting the dialog box?

sure

*cheer*

you have a domain member machine handy for testing?

I'm finally getting some tasks I'm comfortable doing, so I want to get this off my plate.
I am on one now.

url defined in IE intarnet settings as trusted?

I'm opening IE now to check.

ok

It is.

kerbtray installed?
or klist available?

klist is available, aparently.
It gave me quite a list actually.

good, lets tail the error_log while we do this as wel
with loglevel set to debug

-f is the switch to kep tail running, right?

yep

thx for the help guys
have a great weekend

once you have all that in place give it a try and lets look at the debug output in error_log

Ok. LogLevel changed, apache restarted, tailing log.

we dont want to see user (null)
Im multisking quite a bit here, so pardon if I'm not always prompt with replies.

Hi megaspaz ^_^

No worries at all. http://www.compassroseeac.com/tail.txt

hello
it seems like my apache2 doesnt obey the .htaccess files

allowoverride none

AllowOverride None means "Please ignore my htaccess files." and is the default setting. or See http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/apache/2003/12/04/apacheckbk.html

that was fast thx

Allow Daveman

Order deny,allow

Order deny,allow is The Deny directives are evaluated before the Allow directives. Access is allowed by default. Any client which does not match a Deny directive or does match an Allow directive will be allowed access to the server

Deny from all

Deny from all is Denies access to the resource. See also Order, Allow, and Satisfy.

STFU, please.

huh?

The first attempt you see there is me forgetting to uncheck "enable integreated authentication" the second is after unchecking that.

This fajita bot is really pissing me off.

we like her, so I guess you'll have ot manage

In retrospec I am fairly certain we need it checked

Make up my mind!

ty nopaste ;-o

sorry

*try

I was trying to give Daveman a humorous reply, but no–the f***ing bot had to give automated replies.

Ok. I set it back now, but both ways are in that log.

Yes. That's what she does.
It's part of her charm.

And it's part of why those bots aren't popular.

They aren't?

Popularity wasn't a design specification.

Not very, no.

She answers at least half the questions here. That's sufficient for me.

It seems like every channel i FREQUENT HAS ONE.
Oops.

oops is right…

THat's not the shift key.

;p
heehee

could you put up the apache config for the kerberzied vhost please?

What is the answer to life, the universe and everything?

Your mom throws eggs at Hazard

the answer to life, the universe and everything is 45. Douglas Adams got it wrong.
excuse me?

Hey Doc B
You going to any conferences?

Not this month. Next one is ApacheCon, November, Atlanta.
See /topic

The vhost portion is at the very bottom of that.

jippi, works fine why is allowoverride not mentioned in any mod_rewrite tutorial?

Ah, okay

because it's mentioned in htaccess tuts?

Well, back to the botcode

link?

and rewrites aren't htaccess specific?

Well, by that reasoning, AllowOverride would need to be mentioned on every page of the entire Apache documentation.

I PM'd it.

I didnt get it

Oops. I forgot to auth.

i'm not talking about the apache doc, im talking about pages like modrewrite.de which describe how to install/use this mod
bi'm not talking about the apache doc, im talking about pages like modrewrite.de which describe how to install/use this mod/b

You get it that time?

which happens to have a de translation

I'm not familiar with modrewrite.de, but it's not part of the official Apache documentation, and, therefore, completely outside of my control.

while we're testing if you get the pop up dont log in via it. Adds extra info to log that just gtes in my way

ok!

ok is running now but it still gives me that error

i don't blame you i was just wondering

But, in general, the answer is the same - rewrite rules are not .htaccess specific, and so any description of them need not include instructions for using .htaccess files.

happen to have firefox in this machine?

The official mod_rewrite docs, on the other hand, do mention what AllowOverride settings are required.

I do.

pull it up please and do a about:config

Open.

open is n. Abbreviation for `open (or left) parenthesis' — used when necessary to eliminate oral ambiguity. To read aloud the LISP form (DEFUN FOO (X) (PLUS X 1)) one might say "Open defun foo, open eks close, open, plus eks one, close close."

status

2 2007, there have been 1725 modifications and 2007 questions. I have been awake for 8 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes, 47 seconds this session, and currently reference 176626 factoids. Addressing is in optional

but to use rewrite your webserver has to evaluate the .htaccess files…and if you setup your webserver for mod_rewrite, you have to set it up for .htaccess evaluation. or am i wrong?

you're wrong
you do not need to use htaccess to use mod_rewrite

put this in the search box : network.negotiate-auth.trusted-uris
did it get a match?

but where do i place the rules then?

Yes.
default TYpe: string

it's called your httpd.conf

if so, set the value to http://

No, that's incorrect.

the sites http right? no ssl yet?

Like any other Apache configuration directive, it can (and should) go in the main server configuration file.

whoever told you you have to use htaccess to use mod_rewrite needs to get shot

Correct.

What is correct depends entirely on what you're trying to do

And done.

It is, of course, completely possible to run any server/site without having any .htaccess files. It is also recommended.

hm, i should refer to trustfuller sources

8 * megaspaz wonders why you don't just use the official apache

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/trunk/rewrite

i thought it'd be faster to follow a step by step tutorial

and how was the time savings for you?
did you save a whole boatload of time?

all in all
no

like saving a boatload of money switching to geico?

ok, try the site with firefox please

The official docs are a bit of a work in progress, but we're working on them, bit by bit.

pop-up

hmm, i dont know if im seeing the latest line int he errro log or not
it still thinks you are trying ntlm if so.

Yeah. That's what I see.
Perhaps Firefox needs a restart after that config change?

about:config again and check out this key network.negotiate-auth.delegation-uris
make it http:// also
I forgot that one.

Same as the other was. No value.
Should I restart FF?

then give it a try please. sure restart to be safe I guess

you should reboot your computer
:P

heh

reboot teh tubes!

I'm a nix zealot. I avoid reboots like they have AIDS.
Same.

grrrr

But no NTLM message this time.
Still a NULL user though.

hmm logs I see still complaining about ntlm

Look at the timestamps.

I am, they are in the future

Oh. My bad.
IT came last this time.

Trying to configure mod_perl. for some reason, when I try to goto http://127.0.0.1/perl/mod_perl_rules1.pl. The browser is keep prompting to save my .pl file. Its not executing.

"When you always get a NTLM token it

According to time.gov it's you that's living in the past, not me in the future.

normally means that there is no key for this service in your kdc."
which suggests the ktpass line is not matching

Which points to my keytab again?

possibly. That where we mapthe user to the service
did you save the creation line this time? if so delete the user first, recreate it then do the ktpass

I did save it.

good man.
Hazard++

hi there

You know, it really shouldn't be this easy to delete a user.

lets review it again as well, just to make certain I didnt miss anything

i have a problem (again) with virtualhosts…
www.netwichtig.de and netwichtig.de are supposed to be the same.

What have you configured to tell it to do something other than that?
The more data you provide, the faster we can help you arrive at a solution.

very wierd, if I put PerlSendHeader On in the httpd.conf file, it works now

is there an Apache mod_C type module where the server can execute a C binary and send to the client whatever is outputted from the given C binary?

they are configured in the same virtualhost directive as servername (netwichtig.de) and serveralias (www.netwichtig.de) but netwichtig.de is the content that is configured as the 'default' virtualhost.

Ah.

(Linux, not Windows.)

ok.

someone in here helped me fix that but it seems i forgot what the problem was and how to fix it :-/

We'll need to see your virtual host configuration file(s).

You still have it as well? Or you want to see what I saved?

let's see what you saved

http://paste.debian.net/34385

the domain after the @ should be all uppercase, and it matters. not sure if I stressed that last time

and apache2 -S: http://paste.debian.net/34387

om@TRUENORTH.LOCAL -mapuser TRUENORTH\HTTPAuth -crypto DES-CBC-MD5 +DesOnly -pas

i may have even forget to do it myself

ack!
s auth!kerberos2007 -ptype KRB5_NT_PRINCIPAL -out HTTP.keytab

i think thats where the problem is

Any idea about my question?

you do not hapen to be looking for mod_cgi?

mod_c

excuse me?

There's mod_cgi

change that pass

There is no 'mod_c', it was just an example of what might exist.

mod_cgi runs a binary and sends to the client whatever is outputted from the binary.
It doesn't care what language the binary is written in.

Ooh, perhaps. But if I'm going to do everything in C… is there anything that can speed up the process of execution and output that might be better than a module, or is mod_cgi sufficient?

Yeah.

Ah, neat.

Capso ;D

Actually, there is a mod_c. But I don't imagine it's what you're thinking of.

So, it's rather quick in doing so.
What's up?

pushthe keytab out and restart. lets try it again

Doc B, I think my ultimate goal will be to design a standardized configuration file, and force all package maintainers to utilize and distribute it!

only thing different about this and my installis the need you had to prefix with TRUENORTH for the –mapuser value.

possibly along with a [cli] configuration utility.

fastcgi?

One moment, I'm resetting the password, and rerunning the command.

It would be useful if you could join the existing effort, rather than starting your own, but, you know, whatever amuses you. We all acknowledge that it's a lost cause, so I suppose it doesn't matter.

any ideas?

Why would anyone use mod_cgi over mod_fastcgi?

DrBacchus

because FastCGI is a protocol of it's own. Read up on Wikipedia.

depends on your needs, as well.

Ah, okay.

yeah they're two separate animals

Thanks.

hey jmcg :p

Ah.
Feel like we've met before.

WE HAVE

Where?

Assuming you're the SAME Capso ;p
:]

Yeah, Capso's don't change.

What other virtual hosts do you have configured?

buubot :]
and pearl

Oh!!
Haha. Hey!

YES!
Good times

hey ho Daveman

quite some… you need all the configs? only one other for *.netwichtig.de though

Ok, so you have one for *.netwichtig.de ?
Does it appear before, or after, this one?
If before, then, yes, I would expect it to override this one.

command to load mod_rewrite?

uhm no, i meant one other for the domain netwichtig.de. wiki.netwichtig.de.

apache2

apache2 is a name debian based distros give to the httpd-2.0 release

DrBacchus, well if I did join the existing effort, do you think I could gain some support?
At least I think it's a just cause

i forget the command

Not sure what you mean by "support" in that context.

please help

That is, getting people to capitulate? :p

There's a mailing list. The goal would be to get all distro maintainers on it.

or that's how I'd put it
yeah
more or less

load mod_rewrite
how i do?

If we EVERY approach it as capitulate, they'll resist and say no.

I also have my bribery sac ready
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

hrmm

Not sure what you're actually asking.

hello pctonies

Exactly what problem are you trying to solve?

mod_rewrite

mod_rewrite is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_rewrite.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_rewrite.html or see http://rewrite.drbacchus.com/

Then, yes, I guess I'd need to see all your configuration.
Yes, I got that you're asking about mod_rewrite. Can you be more specific?
What exactly is happening, and in what way does it differ from what you want to be happening?

ok, that could take some time…

command to load

Well, I've got 50 minutes, and then I'm going home.

in terminal

I don't have good news.

i forget command

There is no such command.

is a command to load mod_rewrite

Unless you're one of those debian users, and you're asking about a2enmod

thx thx thx
: )
is a2enmod

Doc B
you know, I think it's doable

Well, optimism is always helpful.

yeah I see it. I'm really wondering what is causing us to need to prefix the mapuser with the domain and how that might be affecting us

I have lots of money, and some fine wines

If you approach it as "use our config file" then, no, it's not possible.

No.
I'm a pragmatist.
I'm perfectly willing to compromise.

If we work towards a compromise, then, no, it's still not possible, but it opens up new opportunities for frustration and disagreement.
:-)

Yes.
hey, at least we can have NEW disagreements then, right?
at least it's something new

Well, keep us updated on your progress. It's a worthy cause.

WHo needs *new* ones? VI!

start a holy war

linux is pile of dog poo… it just stinks less than windows and costs less then apple…

Discuss amongst yourselves.

DrBacchus, thanks
DrBacchus, haha that just reminded me of something silly

what doesn't ?

I was a place recently where I observed a couple of individuals actually having a rather heated debate about cat vs zcat

I found something. the kerberos realm is missing in the log cquiring creds for HTTP/dev-icar.dhs.blah.gov@DHS.STATE.blah.US is how mine looks.

ah, the things people argue over

yours: Acquiring creds for HTTP@info.compassroseeac.com

copy of

this may be the key.

hmm…

And which vhost is it that's not working as desired?

netwichtig.de

I'm struggling with ideas on why that is happening.

At this point I'm half tempted to just force HTTPS, and call it done.

I imagine you'll have better luck if you define a ServerName in the default vhost.

dog

dog is 7too short for a password - you need a fairly secure one

blah
fajita, PIN?

wish i knew
Daveman is the ruler…

oh?
I like to think that way

No.

with regards to certain things.

it's gotta be simple. is their an alias for trunorth.local?

Slick RIck is The Ruler.

possible… but what sense would a default make with a servername?

There is all kind of bizaree stuff in /etc/hosts on that machine.

no, I mean this with regard to your AD domain.

So there are two hostnames defined in netwichtig.de vhost. I'm not able to tell which one is working as desired, and which isn't.

…. Well in his own little world anyway

In all honesty, I'd have no idea. I'm just barely becoming acquainted with AD.

www.netwichtig.de is, netwichtig.de isn't

for example our netbios name for the domain is say UTAH but the fqdn is state.ut.us

Have you restarted Apache since making this configuration change?

The only ones I ever see are TRUENORTH and TRUENORTH.LOCAL

and the fqdn is what I use in my ktpass line

yes

oh!

i think the problem is to see in apache -S output… apache takes netwichtig.de as the servername for the default

Perhaps it's supposed to be northmail.truenorth.local? That's the primary AD server.

the fqdn should resolve to the addressesof your DC's

Can mod_proxy_balance do failover?

if you do a nslookup on it.

Yes, based on the contents of /etc/hosts.

someone are using cgi or fastcgi C language ?

So if you set a ServerName in the default vhost, it probably won't do that any more.

I can nslookup several addresses and reach my AD server.

I wanna be a troll… Let me be a troll!

o.O

Poke!

well it wont take much effort to try them?

_._

Ah, it does. Nevermind.

oh yes, i changed that after someone in here solved the problem. so i probably reverted the solution…

How I use a simple example with apache + c ?

Each of the ones I can think of in the ktpass line? And delete/recreate the user each time?

windows master…. how do you determine the fqdn of the AD domain?

thats my /etc/hosts: http://paste.debian.net/34388

is it a member os said domain?
s/os/of/

Hazard ?

Hazard is on one now.

Is which a member?

everybody There is someone that use apache + c ?

ok, I didn't realiae we were talking about someones Apache box. Arreyder. Details please.
bok, I didn't realiae we were talking about someones Apache box. Arreyder. Details please./b

i think ill just get rid of the default… but its strange behaviour imho

I have an Apache box that is not part of the domain, but is trying to authenticate to it.

\o/

Put your arms down pctony the smell is making me feel sick

hahaha

fajita is on a tear today.

having some issues with correct info for the ktpass line needed to export a keytab file for kerbeos auth.

AD auth is VERY hard

no it isnt
it was a breeze

relurks?
haha

Don't listen to him. I agree it's a pain in the ass.

What?

dont massage the bot
freak!

I've just been lucky so far that arreyder was around with his infinite patience.

only a pain when you ar dealing with oddly configured AD domains.
and do not have all the info needed.

agreed

dude
I give really good massages ;p
fajita, happy ending?

i haven't a clue, daveman

:p

NTS

the condition whereby an IRC newbie feels that they have to keep talking, and talking, and talking, the entire time they are in the channel.

Thus our dilemma. I have enough control to find out whatever info, but lack the knowledge to know how.

try the longer name you mentiones and try leaving off the prefix on the -mapuser. try a different name each time with the prefix off, use the one that works

fajita ntp

ntp is network time protocol, and keeps a computer's clock accurate. Everyone should run it. But it's an operating-system thing, not an apache thing

But don't delete/recerate the user every time?

and doesnt complain about not finding the user. if this doesnt work I'm at a loss
I dont know. Try it and see.

fajita be Daveman
you forgot insulting

Hazard to have apache auth against (or to) an AD requires a LOT of tuning and config.. of LDAP, kerberos 5, and sundry dirty details
emphasis on the dirty details

I've got that much figured out.

what, precisely, are you attempting ?

I use it.
successfully even

arreyder you don't count

:P

so help him out already!
why are we even talking

:P

I have the theory of how it works, but getting Kerberos to work together with LDAP in AD mode is.. painful

Ive been helping him off and on for a few weks

do you need to find the AD name?

I must be blessed, it work in a day for me.
worked.

if you want to use apache behind an AD domain, just set up an IIS to proxy it to apache
5 minutes and you're done

please guys. dont complicate this.

or you could just use RADIUS, and IAS

you could even run it on the same machine

we're like 99.99999% done here

I believe so, yes.

just have a parameter mismatch

arreyder did you document your one day ?

yes I did

and what kind of access to you have?

all in his head

All of it.

I assume you are not a winders guy then?

Not so much, no.

please..ust try my last suggestion if that doesnt work I'll step out of this.

I am.

just

I'm working through possibliities now.

ok, the server that you are trying to auth against is it an AD GC?

cn=accountname, dc=domain, dc=tld - at its simplest, that's all you need

no account name needed.
not for this.

I don't know what GC is to answer that.

Global Catalog

we have that, it's not adding the realm to the end of the mapped USER
thats all we're missing, period.

it's the DCs local cache of Forest-wide accounts

do you know the ip of the box?

I do.

connect to it with nslookup

try 127.0.0.1

heh

When I start nslookup, my DC is the Default Server.

ok

But I don't know how to "connect to it" from there.

no, no
when you start an NSLookup
it *should* return the FQDN of the server

AH.

does it?

Or doesn't it?

shut up

Shutting up.

it's the first one listed as nameserver

the dawn of understanding…

Yes. It gives me northmail.truenorth.local

there you gop
go
truenorth.local == AD domain name
Server FQDN == northmail.truenorth.local

Ok. Which is what I thought, but changing my ktpass command to reflect that throws the same error.

well if that is the server you are using for AD auth, then that is it's name, and domain

Wel crap.

and we just need the domain part for the @BLAH.COM
in caps

Yeah, but if I don't prefix the username, I'm still getting that error.
DsCrackNames returned 0×2 in the name entry for HTTPAuth.
ktpass:failed getting target domain for specified user.

is the user really created on the domain we just learned?

Yes.

look up it's OU
make sure.

Hazard you really need user@realm to auth against kerberos

he has it.

oh

we're past that
waaaaay past that

oh

Ok. I'm looking in ADUaC right now.

why dont you know the ad domain name/fqdn then

e're working on the user map and keytab export

Under TRUENORTH.LOCAL, there is TRUENROTHEVENTS, with has the user in it.

grrrr

And my typing has gone to hell.

DN=USERNAME, OU=TRUENROTHEVENTS, DC=TRUENORTH, DC=LOCAL

s/USERNAME?HTTPAuth?
err… Pretend those ? were /

s/DN/CN/

not in AD no
DN == Distinguished name
not canonical name

really ? /me never understood the distinction in AD

heh

Common name, not canonical

yes, really

try this…

AD is not 100% LDAP compliant

@TRUENROTHEVENTS.TRUENORTH.LOCAL
and no prefix.

if that were true, then you could not use LDAP with it at all.. it just fudges around the attributes a bit

Heh. Just for the record, I had typo'd that. TURENORTHEVENTS

heh

ACk! Again I typo.

teh funny

TRUENORTHEVENTS.

true

Same error.

did you remove the account first and recreate?

not that time. One moment.
Same.

what exactly is different about the php exec() function in apache from when run using "php file.php" on the command line?

Crap. I'm running out of time again.

ok, drop the events part. lets put itback the way it was

ok

I seem to get a lot of things not working in the former, even though I have suPHP, so the user should be the same

prefix it if it needs it, recopy the keytab etc…

#php

#php is thattaway. See the TOPIC for #apache!

i'm lost for ideas

Poop

You are.

you might try the kerberos list at mit.

I don't think it's a PHP issue, because php itself runs it fine

sorry bud

blame php

PHP should be presumed to be at fault until conclusively proven otherwise. And even thereafter, if it's convenient.

No worries. You tried way harder than most would.

[just in case we didn't have that yet]

Yeah, end the whole PHP and Perl and Python, etc. bullshit by just reccommending everyone who brings it up, to C.

I've got your email still if I think of something. I'm not good of letting go of unsolved problems…

(And thanks for the mod_cgi and fastcgi hint.)

this will haunt me.

I'll get back to you on Monday about creating the https workaround. So that at least I don't have my users sending plain text.
As for now. It's time to elave for Jiu Jitsu class.
Have a good weekend, everybody.

you too
bbiab

hi I have a problem with virtual hosts in apache. I want to force a iso-8859-1 for one site and utf-8 for another

you can set different "AddDefaultCharset" directives, per virtualhost

I tried it but it does not seem to work on the utf-8 site
I still get weird characters

i do it all the time. Clear your browser's cache

ok that might be the problem. Thx

are you actually sending utf-8?

thx that was my problem

Hi, I have apache on a ubuntu machine i just installed php but its not configuring well. Your apache confg is broken so we are not rerstarting

apache2ctl configtest

gryzor, It cnt find httpd.conf in /etc/apache2

debian/ubuntu uses apache2.conf

gryzor, Yes it says syntax error at 189 line of apache2.conf cant not open httpd.cong

look at line 189 of apache2.conf

exit

sed -n 189p apache2.conf

um… does httpd.conf exist?
that sounds like an error telling you that it's not there…

anyone know of a module / perl script that provides nice custom directory listings?

mod_autoindex

mod_autoindex is http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html or http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_autoindex.html

yeah, I'm using that.

i'm not following you…

I'm using that module already, but the listings are extremely simple.

I didn't realise a directory listing could be spiced up

yse
yes
you can pass the directory listing to a perl script

can't say I've even looked at a directory and wished it looked any different

Well I have business executives grabbing files from a webserver

and?

don't want it looking like web-0.1 back in 1985

have the complained yet?
*they

yes

so write an index.html

uhm
I don't have time to do that for 50,000 directories

script it

no really… didn't think of that
you might be onto something there

you think?

ya man like wow… totally didn't occur to me
lol

there are a billion things like that on a wonderful website….

if something already exists I'd rather not spend time re-inventing the wheel.

www.google.com

www.google.com is br0ken ?

you have not helped me at all

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=php+directory+listing

I'm having trouble with authentication. I've got three directory settings - /var/dav, /var/dav/Finance, and /var/dav/Creative, and two groups: Finance, and Creative. Finance is supposed to be read/write only by finance, creative is supposed to be read * write Creative only, and everything else is everyone.
Yet for some reason, it seems to be ignoring people's group assignments.
….

I don't think "…" means what you think it means.

Will I be shot for going off topic?
No answer is a good answer

Error log says it can't open the group file… which makes sense.
But…

But… is you rotting

I just wondered if anyone could reccomend an HTML / PHP editing program that doesn't look like UI was the lowest thing on the specification

Apache is smarter than me.
I suck at life.
I apologize for wasting your time.

I've no clue, never used webdav in my life. but why do you think it makes sense to not be able to opent he group file?

i love kdevelop
but that might not be for everyone
on mac Coda is a great option.

I'm running Windows

you don't need a GUI to write text.

kdevelop I'm guessing is KDE

windows eh

nice for a files pane

uhm
i dunno
i think E is good
i've heard some good things about it anyhow
i haven't used windows for so long.

I was reccomended "EditPlus" but a) it costs money b) it uses really horrible interface
I'll have a look

you should just install linux

pfe is only decent win32 editor app I now (pfe stands for programmer's file editor). I used it many mango seasons ago

then you get kdevelop

Blocks, when, erm, they actually get around to releasing a stable build. Those rascals, constantly changing it. ( http://www.codeblocks.org/downloads.shtml )

what's size_t on 32 bit platforms?
long unsigned?

unsigned long int usually

ok

go have a look…

hm

no, that is not the accepted way to generate rands in a given range…

RobbieAB, thanks for your reply, would you have a better suggestion?

At least not according to the man page for rand…

Ooh. I guess I could read the man page for rand.

j = 1 + (int) (10.0 * (rand() / (RAND_MAX + 1.0)))
taken from the man page.

Yeah I found the page, thanks RobbieAB!

or, use random and not rand

koollman, is random spec or Linux only?

the man says 'CONFORMING TO 4.3BSD, POSIX.1-2001'

random is not part of the standard library according to my reference
though it is included in stdlib in glibc

so, not 'C99' or 'C89' or 'SVr4'

RobbieAB, what man page?

it's standard .. just depends of your choice of standards

its part of openssl actually

I think ISO C99 is accepted as the standard unless a different one is specified…

RobbieAB, ansi is the standard
until stated otherwise
first come, first serve

glibc man page.

RobbieAB, rand is part of glibc?

and no such code snippet

actually none at all

man rand on my linux hosting box brings #includestdlib.h

openssl does not use a lot of system functions …

and rand() is included in my copy of O'Reillys C in a Nutshell.

odd
wonder why it display's openssl's at my box

man 3 rand should show the libc version

yes it's a part of glibc

nope koollman

the comment about that code snippet is based on older implementations not always having reliable low order bits…

SYNOPSIS #include openssl/rand.h
rand() % max_rand_value should be fine

stdlib.h C89

:P nopealicious

The versions of rand() and srand() in the Linux C Library use the same random number generator as random(3) and srandom(3), so the
lower-order bits should be as random as the higher-order bits. However, on older rand() implementations, and on current implementa-
tions on different systems, the lower-order bits are much less random than the higher-order bits. Do not use this function in applica-

well … then you have a strange system where packages can put manpages in strange places

oops, sorry… Stupid irssi.

RobbieAB, seed, then use rand() (from stdlib.h)

koollman, gentoo

I know. we were discussing how to generate in a range, and I provided a code snippet from man rand

It's simple pseudo maths.
* pseudo
sorry I was afk

I'm so not relearning how to use a different random number generator, I just wanted to do a test case.

I know it is pretty simple, but should you use the high order bits or the low order bits?

hello friends, I couldnot somehow able to read the file, the contents are stored after XORing with original content. I want to encrypt the text and thus storing the encrypted string into a file. But i cannot able to read it back. I am using open("/tmp/test1", O_WRONLY, S_IRUSR |
S_IWUSR);

_good_day, dont forget lines ends are xored as well and data can become a line end

yes. and using read(fd,buff, sizeof buff); where char buff[1024]; , file has 11 characters only.

hi

anyother flag to open file in binary mode. or any comments please..

_good_day, open(file,"rb")?

okey.. good trying..

I wrote a little 100 character xor file reader that encrypted to rand+seed (passed in to it from the command line).

wow.. good. thats really good.

I don't have the code anymore though. :/
Very very simple thing to make.

hum.. matter of experience.

how can I set a const struct again :-[? Like "const struct {int x = 100; char c = 'c';} foo;" but as working C ?

_good_day, I made it when I barely knew C.

what are you talking about anyway ._. ?

_good_day, what's your problem exactly?

benny99, short xor file encryptor.

oh

zacs7, he is encrypting a text file with XOR, but then when it's encrypted it's no longer a text file.

so, does anybody know how to do that ?

benny99, that's not C89 at least. Nor that is how you initialise struct members.

… yeah, I know
but it's 2007-brain-language, how I call it, that shows people, what I want to do

_good_day, you're note actually reading EOF and encrypting it, then dumping it back are you?

but I need it in C90 now

benny99, and what DO you want to do?

setting the members of a const struct, like said in the text…

const struct foo = { 100, 'c' };

thanks

so, why didn't you look it up in your book?

sorry, somewhat out of C
I lent it to a friend long ago

yes.. i am reading the string only not the EOF, after encrypting, I am dumping it back.

then get it back.

maybe some day

_good_day, then what?

please go away.

lol
I love this channel

benny99, Don't push him.

I dislike lazy and stupid people.

XD
I love it !

if you cannot be bothered to have the basic material for learning, then it's a waste of everyones' time.

but while reading it back after storing the data after XORing i could not able to read the file.

I like this channel
sorry, I won't leave that fast

Zhivago, how could population doubling rate be compared over 5 years? I don't get it, usually it's looked at in 10 year blocks. Ie compare the population doubling rate in 2001 with 2006?

you will if you keep on asking silly questions without a book.
you have a growth rate.

interpolation of the growth curve?

yeah, I asked that many questions already, I really feel guilty

the doubling rate extrapolates from a growth rate to find how long it will take to double.

Zhivago, I've asked at Uni I assure you that, No one seems to know!?
Ahhh, thanks !

the growth rate changes over time, so the extrapolation likewise.
which university is this?

Monash

joining this channel and asking one, in numbers 1 question is some kind of bothering, hope that there aren't that many people doing that

hard to believe.
monash is supposed to be quite good for mathematics.

well it's true. It's not a math course FYI.

just shut up and get a C book.
well, then you should go to the math department, and they can set one of their grad students onto you with a pointy stick.

lol, okay. Thanks Zhivago & robberbaron
oops, RobbieAB

performance-wise, is it better to separate a function, place function definition in fun.c and prototype in fun.h? or i can just place my function definition in fun.h without need to write a prototype?

whatever, thanks, I'm gone now, as you desired

Zhivago, is there any reason why GCC writes to stderr and not stdout? Research turns up blank
Zhivago, sorry if I was targeting you, but you answered my question before about it.

some people say structs are 1/2 of an object. is there a way to put some void pointers there and giving struct a function member, so it's a little more of behavior? maybe (1/2 + .2) of an object?

yellow_chicken, there are function pointers if you mean that

yes

Layers within layers. PoppaVic's often mentioned onion.

no

well, I was glossing over.

oh god I started a debate lol

it's payers, and it's still gates and volts - but no one wants to REALLY do there
payers/layers

fascinating isn't it?

the ones and zeros trigeer the correct lines that make the path thru the chip work.
but microcode proigramming for chip internals is a class I enjoyed back in uni.
I have not used it IRl tho.
IRL

yeah, I heard of it late.. But, it's back to "bit x of N bits means foo" - folks tend to forget that they don't get an OPTION to screw the hw "interpreter"

yes, you are quite correct.

It's easier to think of "code" as VOODOO and you are restricted to smaller and smaller "interpreters"

13th floor

Unless yer an EE or ET building bottom-up

yeppers

gee, can I "compile it?" - and learn about the when/why/where
it's…. educational, hence: prolly beyond most folks. Oh.. Did I mention we have no xbox/psp/video-games here?
I sorta' get a chuckle from the dvd-player "menus"

why is that?

well, folks want artsy? Cool - the menus bounce all over and the background is pretty, and I still gotta' figure out what damned button on the remote shuts it up to "go do".
the remote is certainly NOT telling the tv

yeah, many are horrible design from a useability point of view.

well, that's like a lot of programming.

I watch dvds on my computer since i dont have a tv, so I just use the mouse.

ahh

also uses rediculous amounts of code and sucks from a usability point of view

Yeah, I tested that a couple times - it worked fine. But, I want my "crt" to be what I want, I got tvs

a better interface, but still, the web design and 'hotsopts' on many dvds are so irrational due to some idiot art director caring more about cute or flashy than sensible first, then those other artsy things….

don't forget the old "I am protected, fear me"
that's still an issue for dozers and "dumb devices". It's been true since the 70's
oh.. dumb and then (I love this) "proprietary device"
there is no language, we won't tell you and fuck off.

it is funny when the cable guy calls to sell me cable tv. Me: "I don't have a tv?" them: "You don't have a TV?" silence. Them: "You have a cable modem and phone service, but no tv?" Me"Yes." Them: "Oh" (more silence) Them:"Well, ok, uh, bye"

yes, I've gone the other way - same issue: they want to sell an overpriced _package_ they fully control.
I don't much care about cable-tv or cable-phone, I'd like a faster net-connect.. They want to charge for the lot.. and do.

I might consider it if I had a-la-carte channel selection no, extras, and reasonable prices per channel I get to pick. but, they'll never offer it.

yes
I want to PICK the channels I would see, just like I pick irc-nets, email, browsing, compilers, etc.
S'ok…. I'll die, then the next generation will get those capabilities.

as if.

I'm not _that_ optimistic.

If we polled the world, overwhelmingly we'd find a higher need for Universal cable, broadband access, alcolhol and cigarettes, well before the need for healthcare.

May be an entire new media I can't envision

"universal" is a laugh anyway. it isn't.

I really don't see why everyone is so wound up over healthcare.

It's like "insurance" or "military intelligence" or "state intelligence" - not quite an oxymoron, but amusing
the overcharging and legal-weasel issues

s/everyone/politicians/

oh
politicians are another species

Hey guys, got a question!

politicians think it will get them votes from the 'little guys', the 'everyman' — as far as I can tell. But I'm not sure I really want to grasp how politicians think… (heh heh)
Yes, I have a question.

when using fscanf on a .txt files with numbers seperated by whitespace, does it automatically loop the the data until it reaches a 0?

!man fscanf

stdio.h, stdarg.h - fscanf(FILE * restrict stream, const char * restrict format, …); - fscanf () reads input from the stream pointer stream, and sscanf() reads its input from the character string pointed to by str - http://www.iso-9899.info/man?fscanf

sepArated.
mirthy, why a 0?

politicans are into image/popular; bureacrats are into CYA/minimums. It's depressing, but all true

I thought I read in my book that if there is a 0, it ends a loop.
hehe.

what loop?

I'm not sure…
I'm gonna have to look at it again.

jolly good.

Oh, nevermind, they have while(num != 0)
That's why

one of the most depressing things I ever hear is that there is a "professional class" of clerical/advisors that stays forever in government to save themselves, but advise politicians… It's like admitting that putting on clothes and taking a bath requires "attendants" - that survive every
"master of the manor"
hear/read

the thing really wouldn't work if all the knowledge left at set intervals and a bunch of beginners were required to keep the show going.

Auris-: I'm not exactly sure why, but it'd be in sets anyway
Auris-: if shit is THAT complicated, it is overcomplicated.

it is overcomplicated but what can you do about it?

like lawyers versus "C ala' platform/compiler"
Auris-: ahh, and THAT is exactly what folks that program contemplate.. I can't see a non-violent solution short of a (omg, are we fucked!) "const-convention".

plus any longer than than X yesrs projects couldn't ever be done.

Auris-: nope, that is never true
"projects" mean too much to too many

The obvious solution would be to switch out only /part/ of the administration, say one quarter every year

"majority" means too little to too many
there are multiple solutions, but I agree: you never do it all at once
I've always felt that "franking privelege" and "campaign donations" were a way to fuck everyone.. If they need "advertising", why not just allot some many dollars or inches or minutes PER "election" past locals? S'not like the papers or tv get a right to complain, and it DOES matter that they
relegate "use yer goddamned head" to weird hours when folks are asleep
Folks tend to forget wtf these bastards were sent odd for..
off
you know..? I still can't figure out why some places get away with calling themselves "commonwealth" vs "state"..? I've looked around for years, and I still think is all soundbytes.

History, right? There used to be a difference, but that was centuries ago.

I can't tell - the term "commonwealth" seems to be hugely embedded.. I'd rather stonewall lawyers than pay the leeches to pretend to explain it.
There seems to be some underlying difference.. It's even worse than folks talking about octet/byte/char
..and yes, I feel government is like cooking is like programming. people can vary some, but you need the agreed-upon-terms.

I'm messing around with arrays, and I'm trying to print out the 2nd character of the area, but it's just printing out a weird character. Can someone possibly look at this short code and point me to what Im doing wrong?
http://rafb.net/p/VdIm4V86.html
area = array

heh.. What folks don't want to admit is their lil' space/issue isn't a priority otoh, I can't blame them - the way shit has run for centuries.

string1[5] = getchar(); ?

your printing out uninitialized variables

Auris-: you STILL trying to help it?

Stores the characters into that array

how many characters do you think getchar returns?

Ah, the Socratic method

1?

mirthy, yes. where in your array does it get stored?

I guess just 0…?

more like "did you EVER read, listen, test?" The dude is a clusterfuck
u more like "did you EVER read, listen, test?" The dude is a clusterfuck/u

I don't know why you are so mean…

nope.

maybe there should be another channel where the curmudgeons can hang out

it gets stored at index 5. which is out of bounds.

Oh.

people are also mean to PoppaVic. everybody gets their fair share

fair enough…

if you are some limp-dick liberal that believes ##C and everyone here is here to save stupidity and an unwillingness to read or test, then you are just plain screwed

XXXNIGGERSXXXXX

otoh, I think - derenrich_ - you are new.. We have been actively trying to teach Mirthy for weeks and months.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXMXXXx_xXX
XXXXXXUXXXXXXXX

you're right. we should all be erect-dick liberals

XXXXXXSXXXXXXXX

Man i'm not even coding in C right now. I don't need help. Calm down.
and yes I'm new

candide auto-bans flooders for a short while

funz0rz

well, trust me: we have been trying to help the poor bugger for moths - he won't listen, test, read.. He wants it poured into that funnel in his head.
moths/months

I understand past concepts
Because of a lot of you guys.

he's really been here for months?

So it is working.
Hasn't been months…
Like a month tops

everything you're failing at in here is written about in K&R. get the book?

I am surprised you keep coming back.

I come back because there actually are a few good people willing to help.

I am prety sure Mirthy has no baseline at all, and I suspect it can't read or type more than just another random question..

It seems that the people with more years doing C are the ones least likely to help, and most likely to complain.

Perhaps. For those who lack K&R, I'm not very willing to do anything but tell them to get it.

more people would be willing to help you with problems you have come across in a book, than random dabbling and ignorance. don't you see that?

These are problems from the book…
Because it doesn't explain it very well.

get a better one.

I am definitely going to get K&R after this semester is over, because I really am interested in learning more C and continuing it.

You should get K&R *now*, if you intend to get a good score

But until then, I'm just trying to maintain an A in the class.

why after?

This is a huge channel. Some folks are new HERE but not to C, and everyone _wants_ to help and TO help - but, Mirthy , yer eating into the tolerance of folks. At some point an op is going to ban you forever. This is a fact.

page 23, section 1.6: Arrays

Cause I am too swamped with schoolwork, I guess, and the book we are using now kinda goes in order from what we learn in class.

Is the output of a binary file effected by the availability of functions/classes/variables to any part of a program? For example, if I publicize my entire class but only use part of it on a global level, will there be an effect on the resulting binary?

what "binary file"?
thre are no "classes" in C

mirthy, if your book is clearly broken, it would be moronic to not by a better one _now_.

I suppose…

http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/ it's free, online & decent

NEVERMIND
woops*

I've told you many times before: no one gives a flying-fuck about your school or homework-load.

Looks decent Beket, I shall check it out.

You've spent far more time talking to us than it would take to just order K&R. You can use it as a reference, too.

I suppose I have…

Everyone here with ANY skills has either bought an education (and sweat it) or BLED that education (the hard way), and has no sympathy for a lamer.

And *EVERYONE* who wants to use C later has that book. There is no reason to delay getting it.
And *EVERYONE* who wants to use C later has that book. There is no reason to delay getting it.

They sell it in bookstores?

forget it
It's dead-tree

derenrich_, there are no legal copies online.

Sometimes, but there's always amazon

amen

I am aware of that, I have found illegal copies online in the past

Or any good bookstore can order ANYTHING

Well I can't get it "now" if bookstores dont have it

Amazon or gtfo

You can _order_ it now, and get it in a few days
Amazingly, waiting won't help

no, I had one at one time.. And, I already own K&Rv1. THe bootleg was truncated and the new versions teach ansi. Buy the book
I felt the "bootleg" would let me search, instead of getting up and finding the book on the shelf - it doesn't.

Did you OCR it?

Auris-: ebooks are becoming more a legit thing these days
Auris-: http://ebooks.connect.com/

#1) I don't have ocr or a scanner; #2) why would I ever publish that? I already paid several ways.

ebooks are only good for searching.

Gah, Sony puts annoying DRM on those books

I can already piss off interpol, Homeland, the feebs, cia and local - why would I push the buttons to pay a lawyer?

tbh I don't care, all the Sony Reader does is … displays the books. what else would you want?

buy-the-damned-book

Cin, to use them after your sony reader breaks?

To use it on non-sony reader devices (many of which can only read standard pdf or txt)

Auris-: why would you use it on anything else?
Auris-: the books are formatted to fit the Sony Reader's screen

Because I already have something else

To use it after sony goes bankrupt?
To convert it to audio and stick on my ipod?
To print tables?

I don't see why it shouldn't be trivial to break book drm, i mean imagine using the "Analog hole" on it but with no quality loss…

convert it to audio? sounds like infringment

folks pay for it, they sweat for it, and they don't care to save cheap-ass kiddies. really.
- restarting…

Dont come back

Incidentally, dealing with poppavic is one of the rites of passage in this channel.
You've got a low score

take your own advice and add the suffix "until you have K&R"

Oh snap. =p

http://www.pastebin.ca/618162 could someone tell me why i get a syntax error before uint on line 9 in this file? http://www.pastebin.ca/618162
oh, pasted the link twice… sorry

plutonas, is uint defined somewhere ?

i think it stands for unsigned int, but i can't find it defined… it's not my code
i thought it was standard

plutonas, why is the read_department_from_file function defined in the header file?

plutonas, it's not standard, there should be a typedef somewhere

i see
Auris-: it's the professors code
don't ask me… i just have to use this and get an error

maybe his compiler has uint

great.

and yours doesn't

could be…

does he use gcc?

just typedef it yourself

i don't know, he uses a mac if that helps any further, but our code has to be compiled on uni's computers with gcc
that's what i do, thanks everyone

actually, I don't think gcc has uint either

hmm. static const types in a struct.

i think he is more of a C++ hacker, but as we don't know any C++ he also provided the files in C
maybe there it's different i don't know

oh, probably

C++ sucks

hm, how would i do that typedef?

take it to ##c++-bitching

i tried typedef uint (unsigned int);

plutonas, typedef unsigned int uint;

oh wrong order, thanks

your welcome

well, the code is not even C.

s/your/you're etc.

Cin, oh ok, forgot this is ##C-bitching

no.

i still get an error more down
on line 11 now… again a syntax one… :-S

that's because the code is C++, not C.

Auris-: what else should i still change?

there can't be static hosting const members in a struct.
with a preset value.

hm… i see

Hey bro, howz it goin?

lol

i think i better remove const than static

it's going fine. yourself?

plutonas, best thing would be to move the static const members out of the struct.

Trying to learn my new hp50g

Auris-: how???

what's that?

by moving the line of code outside the struct.
then you of course will have to change anyplaces where cf1 or cf2 are used.

yeah, but i couldn't use the struct in the same way then i suppose

http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-Packard-F2229AA-ABA-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B000GTPRPS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8835777-3646532?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183421002&sr=8-1

Auris-: they are not used anywhere yet

oh, hot

but i don't think i understood exactly what you mean

you don't know da half of it

plutonas, then the other way is to remove the static const and the initialization from them and always set cf1 &cf2's values when you create an instance of that struct.

and I know how hard it is to tell lecturers that the code they have provided is broken. _

not only that, the semester has finished

lolwut

and the lecturer isn't here, i should send an email…
and i would like to attach the code corrected there…
and not having to wait some days till i get a reply

plutonas, if you are using gcc, compile with -Wall -W -Wextra -ansi -pedantic
(at least)

hm…
Auris-: did the change, now i get error at line 15 before Department…
should be the last one…
wtf
i can't see any error there though…

plutonas, what error is that ?

department.h:15: error: syntax error before "Department"

well and after that it says that f, and d are undefined, but i suppose that this has to do with the previous error
i hope at least
oh not PoppaVic
:P

damned software

first error first.

yeah

yer welcome to simply ignore me or stfu or get thee-hence.

does it seem correct to you too?

interestingly, the freakin Quicktime update/download was irksome, but it worked.

plutonas, what does the code look like now?

i just removed the static const and the assignments from lines 11 and 12
so these look now like uint cf1; uint cf2;

ah, more C++. you need to have "struct Department* d" in the function parameter list.

plutonas, g++ the damn file

ohhhh yes

that would have been the easiest thing to do.

wow, no error now

but you had a good thing there. lecturer knows only C++ and none of you know C++.

thanks, now i have debug another similar file…
yes, we are allowed to do the project in C++ if we like
i don't think anyone does it

can't find people in #make; so using ##c as an approximation: OGRE_FLAGS = `pkg-config –cflags OGRE` … does _NOT_ give me what I want, I don't want OGRE_FLAGS to be that string; I want OGRE_FLAGS to be that string evaluated in a shell …. how do I make that happen in Make?

you could read the documentation for make…

you can be replaced with a while(1) { fprintf(stderr, "%s: you can read the documentation for %s", nick, topic); } bot

http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Shell-Function.html#Shell-Function

hmm; thanks

##workingset aims to help with make problems, amongst others.

I was considering suggesting that, but you hadn't mentioned whether you were using GNU make or not

doh
sorry for being a jerk

and I don't know if that is standard

okay, I'll be more specific in the future

probably I was being paranoid

dunno what would be considered the standard for make.

some days
-logre -trolls
-logres -trolls -lhobgoblins -lorcs -gremlins
"what fun!"
hmm… how come folks never have whitespace-stupidities with libs?

linkage?

and "" ?

Hi.

Very strange
lo, sum

was there an a and b language before c? or did it all just go straight to c?

there was a 'bcpl', iirc
and an 'a'

is it possible for a macro to expand it's variable argument list into a function call for each argument?

did they do a major overhaul between each one?
cause now there's d right

yer heading into the cobwebs of history, beware, Yes, they overhauled, and D has nothing in common

they say there are several separate languages called D
though I only know of digitalmars' D

don't confuse logical-order with authors/roots

D looks like c++ with a gc
from my quick glance anyways… but continue PoppaVic

There actually was a B.

were all three from bell labs?

The user's ref is onlie from 1972, by Ken Thompson. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html

well, they also say there's a programming language for all letters

don't expect voodoo

s/onlie from 1972)/online (from 1972)/

and I guess soon there'll be a language called X# for any letter X

and there is no overloading of macros either? something like #define DBG( msg ) print( msg ); and #define DBG( msg1, msg… ) print( msg1 ); DBG( msg ); would be good …

better to learn wtf a "macro" is, and then suffer the variadic issue

well I havne't heard of b++ yet
so we're all sane still

there is no "overloading" in C

http://sourceforge.net/projects/b-improved/

the day there's a d++ I'm quitting programming

and perhaps X++, X–, and X flat too

BAH

well, there is function overloading

stop looking for miracles
the world is the world

bcpl++ would be the one that would surprise me.

hmm. ok. thanks

what folks don't appreciate is that there IS a cpp over C

i don't get the drift

I do admit the default cpp just about hurls
cpp== "C Pre Processor"

hm. what do you mean by that?

by _default_ the language sucks, and (nowadays) they tend to build it into the C "compiler" (intererpreter)

ah, like inline?

man cpp and then see how gcc will let you replace it
no, FORGET goddamned C++
stop comparing them

ok, that's not what i want. i'd like to have a expansion before compilation
ok, that's not what i want. i'd like to have a expansion before compilation

does anyone ever _replace_ cpp instead of doing an addittional preprocess step before cpp?

didn't ever use c++… i am using inline in c…

I have no recollection of a specific, but it's there - anyone can

or a post process step after cpp and bfore whatever your cc is.

stop THINKING like that.

guys what is wrong with c++ ?

well, before and after are valid views.

yup

hm. why do you say that? i don't want to have bloated code or bloated memory, since i have only 1kb ram to spare for everything …

after lets you mutate headers as they are already included.

it still boils down to interpreting and "what do I know, and what can I change" anywhere
if yer down to 1K, yer in the wrong place

I don't wanna start any flame, but I would really like to hear some thoughts about C++

I'd recommend lisps forths, and asms

well, ask on ##c++ instead

C++ is probably the ugliest OO system that I've ever looked at among many oo languages.

no wait, that won't work either

what program can you use to decompile a binary created using cc?

I don't wanna hear pros about C++

I do have an opinion about c++ but this is not the place to discuss it

I'd never use C++ again if my life depended on it

well, i don't think so… there is no point in writing 8k asm-lines…

if you insist on using an OO version of C, Objective C has merits over C++.
I wouldn't either.

look, text-input is not stored-size/execute-size.

I'm not a C++ user either, I DO PREFER C, yet there are time when I think C++ might help me organize the things better

as a virgin, today, I'd review objC and look at C only as required.
…until the silly fuckin' commies ruin objC like they did C++

C++ sucks

correct. my device has 16bit instructions and 16k flash, thus i have 8k asm instructions or some less nicer c-code. that is btw, easier to debug

I'm too old and busy to scratch-learn obj-C.. As long as she and I can work together, she's got a job.

you can apply certain degrees of strictness and use an object-like system in C. You just won't have true polymophism or inheritance or protected /private concepts.

stop looking for sw answers to hw issues.

don't use C++, you will burn in HELL

what's wrong with hell?

nod

its hot

at least we can't blame C++ on ms….

and your computer's fan can't cool your hw

one of da few things we can't

anything you find that is tight and compact is either dependent on outside tools or a lot of experience.

nopealicious, that's just FUD.

is that c++ that bad ? i mean, there are big projects written in it

it will all melt eventually

the*

that's not a sw answer… memory consumes current and there are times, current is very expensive.

Beket, does a billion dollar paying userbase make windows good?

I'm not even sure that _poly_morphing is a "good thing"

nod nod

hardwire it - hire an EE or ET

it makes it good for generating money

PoppaVic, it is, if you need code done fast

nopealicious, it makes is successful

ah, C++ bashing is the theme for today?

also with a "boss" in your neck; most coders get paid for work done, not quality work done

ok, i will have a try… "ttl-grave".
thanks so far. by

yeah, good thing that the most important thing is money and how to get there fast
uyeah, good thing that the most important thing is money and how to get there fast/u

hrnt, wr are running out of flame topics so we have to cycle through the old ones :p

actually, not really - it came out that way when folks tried to preach OOP over OO over C over I don't want to know

and good thing that the linux kernel guys use C++; it really makes the OS so much stabler

nopealicious, take for instance KDE which is written in C++, what's so bad with it ?

its bloated
and it sucks

nopealicious, now, what that has to do with c++ ?

uhm, what?

and good thing that the linux host kernel guys use C++; it really makes the OS so much stabler" (I'm laughing hard here, this is a grand silly statement)

linux kernel guys use GNU C

it has to do with kde
that was your example, not my fault
hrnt, o rly?

RLY!

tell me you never heard of sarcasm!
omg

still sounds like folks playing "mine is bigger than yours!"

nopealicious, you are missing the point, anyway

I've re-written the linux scheduler once to change flock()'s behavior.

Beket, i always do

so processes waiting on a locked file could hand their scheduled time to the process that had the lock. was entertaining. Had a friend who had to do it for a class, so I decided to also do it for the fun of it.

well,i don't think GNU C is a good alternative either

what'd u go for?

so we have two bad choices, can't fit much sarcasm between them

I'd done such in Dream Time when I had the source to crt0 and cp/m.. Nowadays, you need better solutions: folks want to ignore all those interfaces/translations/expectations

corporate MS VC++&MFC?

(since when I was in uni, linux wasn't in os classes)
(yet)

they should be sticking to standard C as much as possible

a big user base doesn't always imply goodness, just popularity.

If you can't write a lib, then don't bother folks. If you can't write a language, don't bother folks.

hrnt, i agree, would help on ceratain microchips
peapicker, ORLY?
peapicker, don't tell me that was my point please!

There are certain issues that remain the same everywhere you go.. They are universal, period. Try to puzzle them out.

i haven't been following much linux kernel development, so i don't know how it really is, but afaik they are preferring GNU extensions over C99 features. (for example for FAM: char buf[0] instead of char buf[])
ui haven't been following much linux kernel development, so i don't know how it really is, but afaik they are preferring GNU extensions over C99 features. (for example for FAM: char buf[0] instead of char buf[])/u
(correct me if i'm wrong)

Linux is not saving the universe
it sure helped, but they've dug a hole to die in

It seems, upon re-reading the backlog, that your sacasm was more subtle than my filter was processing. My apologies.

I wonder how long Debian will continue to support Linux?

peapicker, i often get this in here, no worries

oh
"is that all?"

MSVC apparantly doesn't support C99 at all anymore…

anymore?

I wasn't aware it ever had.

Not anymore.
MSVC doesn't support C99 _yet_.

response to /msg

its windows

well, whatever support it may have had has been dropped.

they mutated all the unix standards until it was patentable

I heard a microsoftie mumbling about it in #zsnes

now they are their own standard
may they burn in hell for it

and, C99 itself is not going to save the world - lord KNOWS what the fuckin' commoes will come up with next.

i don't think C99 is very high on microsofts agenda at the moment

personally, I'm expecting them to give up after C99's glorious success

For good reasons, I would imagine.

first there is C#, then other native .NET languages, then C++/CLI, then C++0x and maybe then C99.

well, they didn't think of it - that's why

and personally, I have to say that the [0] way seems to make rather more sense…
it would be easy to have implemented that extension by sheer negligence

Granted that much of the success of 7.0/7.1 was attributed to [finally] good ISO 14882 conformance, I dare say that C++0x will be high on the agenda. (Although, not for the 2008 product).

I often believe we see a damned-wide cross-section of "C" use in here.. We have no idea what the commies intend, but we end up suffering their decries
even the ISO stuff doesn't really impress me..

yeah, but MS is pushing .NET heavily and C++ (and C) do not fit into that world.

ahhhh

Standard ML does thou. SML.NET baby.

therein lies the fun
never suffered it

.NET is mostly for pass-by-reference garbage collected languages if i have understood it correctly.

ML is a nifty functional language.

C and C++ are both pass-by-value not garbage collected
(granted, C++ has pass-by-reference but those are real references, not pointers disguised as references as they are in .NET world)

dude, I worked with drill-machines and CNC - federal and excellon and gerber std.. Same issues.. I'm used to it all.

um.
how are they not pointers in disguise?

x = whatever;

sure, you can't change what they point at…

exactly

maybe it'd help to be able to define "reference" in a way that makes sense from asms up?

yeah, references are probably implemented as pointers, but the abstraction is still different and that is what matters.

Sweet! I used to write GLcode translators for CNC machines to turn what the CAM software emitted into something optimized for specific machines on the floor after I got out of Uni.

but in terms of representation I'm not seeing a great deal of difference

but for interfaces, it's the abstraction that matters, not the implementation.

3, 4, and 5 axis milling machines were the focus.

I got raped by the owner/employer.. I'd never suffer it again.

or was it just 3 and 5? to long to remember. do 4 ax machines exist?

so how is what C++ calls "references" somehow more "real" than what .NET has?

I tried to help #3 son.. He felt his CNC classes should teach "one language" and that variants were not "fair" or "right"

Oh, thats even funnier. I was a 'temp' for the 6monsth I was there, paid half what I shoulda been, promised a position for full time at real money which they never put thru, so left.
heh heh

s'ok, I never left all my code at work

after you have bound a reference, you can not separate it.

I'd never do that again. Ever

and there are no "null" references.

what does this have to do with "real"

after I left they had no one who could code, just machinsts who pretended to be cad cam guys. The place folded two years later.

yep.. Once I was "walked out", they closed in 2 months

Even tho I left all the code

well, that would depend on the definition. i'd rather not get stuck into an argument about semantics, so i can drop the "real"

I wouldn't either.

who interprets what and from..? ;-
It's hard for me to take a lot of folks seriously..

i'm not arguing that c++ is better because it has "real" references, my original point was that C++ and C are fundamentally different compared to .NET languages.
ui'm not arguing that c++ is better because it has "real" references, my original point was that C++ and C are fundamentally different compared to .NET languages./u

what is a "real reference"?

aliases

what is a ".net language"?
nope

PoppaVic, in C++ a reference is practically an alias for the same data

amazingly, once you read of 'reference', you shake yer head and go "ooooh, a translater and TAGFIELD…"

"DS94SqqEiaLSc" you know what system use this coding?

there yah go

references are crippled pointers that are automatically dereferenced

better to think of interpreter+payload.

"crippled" is not necessarily a bad thing.

is there something like an array but for storing objects ?
for c#

i'd have static typing over php's typing any day, even though static host types are more "crippled" than phps.

hello
what's the best web hosting c book?

the k&r is pretty good

Dreamer–: wrong channel.. get out and consider containers and queues/stacks

k&r is the usual answer. some people say that kings "c, the modern approach" or whatever it's called is good too, but i haven't read it.

I know programming, php, java

wooops

when the current edition of K&R was written, neither of those languages existed

doesn't matter

well, I need to learn C

K&R would never cater to php and whatever

kr = the c programming language?

kr is a TLD.

yeah. kernighan&ritchie

well, ritchie (the r) and thompson from bell labs invented c.

At every level for over 2 decades, I have watched folks try to erode terms and usages. This is why I get tired of trying to talk with folks.
even the GUI crap came out of Xerox-parc and Apple by doze and out into "wtf do you mean"

yup

I know, danke

PoppaVic, oy yep, I agree, but I mean, practically what a C++ reference is, is just that
PoppaVic, an alias for the same data bucket.

dude, C++ had a fine chance to come up with an interpreter and intermediate files and goto the same place: preserving portability w/o a clue the author used C++.. They fucked it all up, deliberately.
and no, a ref is not a bucket
Everyone in the channel has written a paper with a "reference", and everyone that's done THAT also knows what an html "link" is.
folks that think a "reference" is not a "pointer" - are wrong. Folks that don't believe _something_ needs to "interpret" the "reference" - are wrong.
To be absolutely a bitch… "C" is _not_ the headers and libc or libs.. Now.. Feel free to argue that as well

But in terms of C++, on a syntax level (the level of most import to this discussion) a "reference" is not a pointer. The tongue-in-cheek answer is sitting right in front of everyone: Define a reference in terms of the syntactic-distinction between pass-by-reference and pass-by-value.

if anyone could just explain what this means i would be very appreciative "regcomp(&file, defs.defs[j].regex, REG_EXTENDED);"

##C++ can discuss "reference" all they like, they pull their pants on - one leg at a time - like everyone around them.. I've no patience for their stupid abuse of terms

does it just compile the reg expressions found in the string?

time for a manpage

well thanks anyways
ok just one last thing should &file … if i printf("%s",&file);
should i see anything or no?

A call to a function regcomp() which takes three parameters. The three arguments supplied for those parameters, in order from left to right, appear to be: the address of a file object, the member 'regex' of the j-th element of an array 'defs', which is a member object of an object named 'defs',
and a value (from the looks of the identifier, a macro constant most likely).

hey

lo, fax

ok

when did passing/returning structs as values become permissble in C?
I think you couldn't pass structs as values in ANSI C?

years ago

You shouldn't see anything useful, also the will result in undefined behaviour. You want %p with addresses, not %s.

It still bugs me, but you are talking about info that is in the compiler-space/time. Be advised: it's SHALLOW, not ctor/dtor "deep"
I tend to agre, fax - but it's a headspace

I suppose so, yeah
so can I assume this came in with C89

post/get
er

PoppaVic, I never said a reference is a pointer
PoppaVic, not even near to it.

if it's a nice, shallow, flat struct: C can take them as args or returns. If it's deep all bets are off
for fun, if you care, consider why that's true with just an array member.. It's.. "fun"
yer wrong.

fax, in C89. k&r even says so.

for fun, wander out and see about references/ref-counts/gc

cheers

PoppaVic, I know about that, believe me, I never said a reference is a pointer.

I never said you did either, but they are related.

PoppaVic, even Bjarne Stroustrup says think of a reference as an alias.

a "reference" is an abstraction ABOVE
stay well, man
worse, C++ uses "reference" in a strange way, but you can get past it.

PoppaVic, well I'm talking about a C++ reference of course, not a reference in general.
PoppaVic, specifically about THAT implementation.

to be honest, ever damned pointer under C is really a "reference".. BUT: to what?

PoppaVic, yes, it is a form of reference.

I don't know about that

dude, if you want to talk about C++ argumentative, see ##C++.. I'm telling you it all ends up as a value and interp
u dude, if you want to talk about C++ argumentative, see ##C++.. I'm telling you it all ends up as a value and interp/u

its not a conventional reference

whose "convention"?
data is data

well, mine

ahhh
watch out

or that of Java and C++

no

they have somthing in common that a pointer doesn't

don't DO that

.oO( I'm just waiting for the first "portable" managed C++ projects *hrhr*)

beware portable, expectations, binary.. IN that _order_
folks often get defs that don't agree all over.

agreed.

well thats what language is eh?

Think of programming as the "machine bogot"

WHy do I get "parse error before '*' token for this header line? void require(JSContext *, JSObject *, const char *);

bigot

I mean we can somthing in language A that takes 1 word, but takes 30 in language B

welcome to The World Of The Real

maybe JSContext or JSObject aren't defined

Is JSContext a typedef?

oops
peter_12 I meant

because it doesnt know the JSContext or JSObject?

If not, shouldn't you be prefixing that type identifier with 'struct' or 'enum'?

hmm. xystic, thanks for the clues I'll look some more

peter_12, you probably need to include some header.

I'm trying that now. Thanks

hmm, i'll be very happy if that damn mazda project is over, i'm sick of them as customers

hehehehe
oh, lord Huge, pianful smile here..
I'd suffered that with my boss and GM and AC-delco
"Customer service", man.. To me that meant calling a spade a spade and helping; to the boss it meant "get the job"

we want to have this changes, … no we now we dont, we want the sw for this platform the same as on the other one before, even the bugs, nevermind that the SOP is next year

hehehahaha
I had a call one day… I had their magtape-crap in 8 layers. On the screen…

the hell, why do i do anything on this sw, if the changes wont make it in the final sw anyway

They wanted to know if I could swap the East layer-2 with East layer-4, etc.. I did exacly what everyone wanted.. we made the boards, the traces looked good: "it doesn't work!" - umm…. so? I didn't add code, man.

magtape?

yeah, reel-to-reel for some jobs - THAT itself was a pita
"no it's over on FOO" - umm dude… yu sent me magtape, I have to seek for files and EOFF - lemme' grab the raw.
so, watching folks here bitch too often is sorta' like chumming the waters or laughs.

hi

i personally would say, we freeze the project now up til 2weeks before SOP, then we put it in the microwave, and send that to them, so we could do another project til then

in many ways, mylar/paper-tape would have been easier.
ahhhhhhh
welcome to my club

i remember someone in here had an article on casting. when it is good and not.

!dont cast malloc

Books and tests and gogle is out there.

!dontcastmalloc

There is no need to cast the result of library functions that return void *; it makes your code hard to read, adds no value, and can hide a bug if you don't have a valid prototype in scope.; see http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/casting.php
There is no need to cast the result of library functions that return void *; it makes your code hard to read, adds no value, and can hide a bug if you don't have a valid prototype in scope.; see a href="http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/casting.php"http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/casting.php/a

if 2+ - and it damned well better be more than 2 - _structures_ can be "of-type-0…N", then you cast. Malloc certainly has no interest.

if it would be just mazda that frustrates me, there is also PVCS, DOORS, Office and Windows

see where I get lost?
damn.. prolly ime to call it a knight,, Back in my AM; Stay well folks!

regcomp(&file,"(.*)\.file\.exe$",REG_EXTENDED);
that should "compile right"

why are you doing \. ?

to really look for a "."

did you want the string to contain backslashes?
because \. is interpreted as .
you should use \\ to insert a literal backslash

no i don't want backslahes

then dont put them there
.. alone is fine

i want to find any file with extension .file.exe

"(.*).file.exe$"
or
"(.*)\\.file\\.exe$"
You decide

ok let me check something one second

maybe you should this

independent electronic music, videogames, and stuff! www.netherself.net

printf("string1 = %s\nstring2 = %s\n", "\.", "\\.");
can you guess what the output is?

ok fax, but if you use \\. doesnt it look for an actual \then any character?

it?
lol k-lined

hm

hi all is there someone?

lolhwut

:|?

!ask Arcer

If you have a question, just ask. If somebody knows, they'll answer For best results, be specific, informative, complete, concise and on-topic! Don't ask if you can ask a question. Don't ask if anyone uses/knows about foo. Please don't be demanding or insulting. Remember, we're all volunteers.
Also see: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

i got algorithms in c by sedgewick
1-4

were you writing a prime number generator a few days ago?

yes excuse me
so
i'm looking for

!ask Arcer

If you have a question, just ask. If somebody knows, they'll answer For best results, be specific, informative, complete, concise and on-topic! Don't ask if you can ask a question. Don't ask if anyone uses/knows about foo. Please don't be demanding or insulting. Remember, we're all volunteers.
Also see: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

yes

a function to convert timestamp

OK cool, I know you

Don't
talk

fax:

like
this

excuse for my english i'm italian

do you know of this book?

That's ok. Take your time.

I heard of it but I haven't read it

i got it for 50% of the n. american version.. ebay it from taiwan
off of *

i'm looking for a function in C language to convert timestamp in date or something

an example of your timestamp?

UNIX timestamp
number of secondo from 1 Jan 1970

brbrg2g

gettimeofday()

i'm looking
in time.h?

sys/time.h

How do you 'convert a timestamp' with gettimeofday?

thanks

urgh sorry

is there some alternative to getch() if you need to be interrupted?

No

you could use select/poll

jbalint, man getch

Does anyone else think Diehard 4.0 was terribly unrealistic and nerdy?

iseem to remember something recent from the linux kernel that allowed signal delivery through file descriptors

Linus wrote a prototype thing, and someone else extended it

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_22#head-0357b2415f5d3116bf2b03de07224d16912acec2

thanks vorpal , will lok

Hello. I have a basic question. If I have a pointer that points to an integer, what is the value of the pointer when I take away the dereferencing operator?

like what ?

uh.

7

"a pointer to an integer".

let me use 2 or three lines to paste. I promise it won't be a lot.
int *bing, integer;
integer = 123;
*bing = &integer;
now what is the value of bing without *?

bad code

that's wrong

I'm learning

&integer

*bind is of integer type

you cant do that

&integer is of int * type
incompatable assignment

int i, *p = &i; /* the value in p is a pointer to i, i.e., &i. the value in in is indeterminate. */
s/the value in in/the value in i/

not at least in runtime

listeb, bing is probably filled with some trash value… when you try to do this, you are trying to write the address of integer into the memory position defined by that trash

ah

if bing = 0×09999999, you will attempt to write the integer's address into the position 0×09999999 of memory

ahh
ok

Well, not really..
It's actually undefined behaviour. Though that's the most likely option.

that's why I said "attempt"

so *bing = integer is a pointer to integer then?

no
it would make sense if you wrote bing = &integer, because bing is a pointer, and now it points to the integer variable.

in my example *p and i are lvalues for the same object.

but you can't do *bing = integer, unless you had assigned a known value to bing before

Well thank you all. I suppose I have some reading to do.

wc

/wc

wc¿

welcome

like so.

hello,all , are there some c example code repositories or archives for reference ?

yes, see google

yes, see K&R

or your favorite opensource operating system

www.topcoder.com/tc

I thought topcoder was C++

it is
but a lot of people do a pure C coding wrapped by a class

which is thus not c.

where is a good start point to c ?

K&R

a good book. see the home page for some suggestions.

ok, i'll google this book…

check a library or bookseller.

I got K&R from the public library. Taxes are worth it.

K&R that a book is more details about c. to read it spend more time.

Fivestar, many people here recommend K&R. there are no "short cuts" to learning C
bFivestar, many people here recommend K&R. there are no "short cuts" to learning C/b

i want a tutorial .
not a reference.

The Sams self-teaching series is good as well

"the gnu c programming tutorial" is a good tutorial

Fivestar, K&R is not a reference by any means
except perhaps for the appendices

you don't know c — how can you know it is good?

is there a pdf edition ?

of k&r? no.

the book is quite inexpensive

lol

and it comes in dozens of languages: http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/index.html

and it's not very big what it makes it nice to read

i see three chinese editions

I don't like translations too much
but if you can't read the original…

the chinese edition about translation is so… bad.
i want to read origial book .

Fivestar, go do that then.

i'll do that ..

hi

have anyone used GNU gettext?
I installed the GNU gettext in Cygwin… but for some reason the "msgfmt" command wasn't found
hmmm… is there any extra step to config the pathname before using the command?

Why did they have to make C89
and worse.. C99
could they not just have kept ANSI C and stayed there
Its really annoying how they add all these features etc

c89 is pretty much ansi C.

C89 allows structs as values for parameters of functions but ANSI C doesnt?

no, even k&r C allowed that

ppl just add in new feature and modify the standard
heheh…

m
ok
damn!

anyone know where I can find the source code on IPv4?

linux.org

I can't find it in FreeBSD 6.2

in /usr/src/linux/net I guess

oooo.. okay.. I'll look..
and hnaz

are you done?

one more

what does 'source code on IPV4' mean?

:p
hi

src/sys/netinet/

hi Zhivago
G
from efnet?

yeah
rabioli
?
rlauren
who are you ?

who?

Uff.
Religion:
Religion, have you spoken to your friend, uplink?

no talk

We should write some slam poetry about C

:/

haha

who are you?

You

go do something away from your computers!

no!
You're on your own there.

vorpal gets a lot of tugging..

dioz
who are you ?

ah, stupid hour has come early again.

I think boolean values should include a "maybe".

use an enum

No, canonically it should be True (0), False (1) and FileNotFound (2).

have you spoken to uplink?

take it to PM
instead of repeating it over and over..

my connection is poor, i didn't know the message was sent

False(-1), Maybe(0), True(1)

rogder

fax:

Use an enum

…

Fax, I am just joking.

Hmmm… Little power outage there. Wonder what that was about?

when you fseek to some arbitrary place in the middle of a file (mode "r+b") and use fwrite, does it insert data or overwrite it?

overwrite

excellent /mrburns

heheh

that would actually make sense
too much sense…

What would?
string instead of bit'd flags

yes

other way around zacs7

can i compile the linux kernal for more speed? (with gcc)

Oh, it makes too much sense to have it sensible

-funroll-loops

is a funroll anything like a cinnamon roll?
heh

I want a cinnamon roll :p

a funroll is like being decapitated.

Sounds sexual to me…

thanks

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1040/546252526_3811e94968_b.jpg - there you go.

anyone in here a startrek episode expert?

lol
#startrek

you;d think some1 would create a website that could ask you some questions and help you track down an episode

I'm sure someone has.

there was 1 user in there.
Ok. Here goes:

but it was probably that one where beards made spock and kirk evil.

It's called the Memory Alpha Wiki; google.

There was an episode, TNG or DS9, 3 central alien characters, which were linked telephatically. They were separated by a surgical procedure. some1 PLEASE name that episode

tarde tarde

lol

S3E4 Planet Xeon
Really!??! Lol no

s3e4 of what?
seriously, if any1 pins that down, I owe you one.

google tells me that it was called "attached".

anybody know of a good ebook and/or tutorial?

and it's where you discover that picard's taste in women is highly questionable.
how about 'walden'?

you discover that quite early on in TNG

walden?

Zhivago where you found that pic? Jesus vs. Darwin

Dr Z…it's a TNG ep? I lost that bet
season 7 #8

Zhivago-: picard only goes after the damsel in distress

RadSurfer, you like Stargate?

was just about to ask that
who likes atlantis?

Zhivago-: try farscape
the acting is much better than any of the star treks

atlantis needs more imagination. sheesh

hey now…i would have only said that in the replicator episode, pretty much a straight rip of SG1 that time

and it was produces in .au

farscape was cool

picard also goes after untrustworthy, dishonorable, decietful rogues _

what about BSG?
BSG turned really crap season 3

BSG sucks

Nah-uh!

the acting and filming is good, but the plot is hollow
worse than hollow
it tries to be an epic

bsg sucks

There's more drama in a BSG episode than in a Karazhan run.

I didn't like BSG
seems boring

Die Hard 4.0 anyone?
What a load of crap

if BSG had any kind of plot consistency, i might enjoy it. as it is, they seem to fabricate a "deus ex machina" every single episode.

This is not the correct episode I described at all.

What the hell is a firesale?

I might still win this
Stargate is aok, Atlantis lacks imagination.

so does anyone know of a good ebook to learn C?
or C++
personal experience would be useful

K&R

K&R FTW

rawr, ebook, why don't you like paper?

or anything from Sams Publishing

Im composing an audio file named Teach yourself C in 2 seconds

fax, nice

fax, does it go something like "Buy a book you pov homo"

lol

http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Gekkko K&R C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_%28book%29) is the book to have for C. There is an online book for C++ called thinking in C++ (http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html), also a really good must-have for C++ is not avail online, called 'Accelerated C++'

The C89/90 standard makes a good read

are they good for learning C from the very beginning?

zacs, a bit dry, but the final authority

mindview.net expired on 07/07/2007 and is pending renewal or deletion.

Ding ding, steer clear of RFCs

C or C++ is a huge distinction

uhh what
what is wrong with RFCs?

I know?
one is object orientated.

no not really

see we could argue about this all day
it just ends in a flame fest.
that's not what I came here for

Gekkko some say K&R is not suited for the beginner but I don't agree. the 2 C++ books are definately suited for the beginner

Gekkko, you've heard K&R a few times? Doesn't that tell you something!?

C++ is ostensibly an extension of C, but not quite. however, i do advise learning C before moving on to C++.
have you ever done any programming at all?

yeah

what languages?

Ruby and BASH, and I have done some C.

I feel I can avoid C++ by switching to java hosting directly

and Visual Basic o_O
that kills my mind.
I just can't remember anything I learnt about C really lol

not even, puts("Hello World!"); ?

… nope
my memory is shot.

Gekkko, C is like riding a bike…

I said I did a bit of C
not much
jesus…,

C is not like riding a bike

Yes it is… fun
fax, you'd say C is not fun!? How dare ye!

does ansi c support long long int's?
and how do you get printf to print a long int?

Yes m55 it does (I think its C99 though)

and printing long ints with printf?

m55, http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=274423
anyway See inttypes.h

hello

hi

from your personal experience of knowing both c and c++, what would be more benificial to learn?

that startrek ep I wanted has been identifiied.

you expect an unbiased answer here?

light, no but i'll be asking in c++ aswell

jesus christ! I just flipped on -pedantic -ansi and figured out why I rarely use C
heh

C is

C
I agree with boris“

yes, and some points to back such claims

gah

You can code things faster in C++, but just like driving a car, you crash easier and harder
that's my view

I don't think so

C and C++ are fundamentally different, but if you wanted to teach the aspects of programming related to C++, there are much better langauges to use.

it is very easy to crash the C++ car

you could use very few other languages to teach the principles associated with C

How noisy.

ok, perhaps someone knows of a well made online comparison?

C and C++ are like apples and oranges

c, like c++, like every other languages has both advantages and flaws, it is a matter of personal preference
so if you want to code in any language, do it — or sleep.

a personal preference which can only be made by learning both languages, which i dont plan to do atm

lksdfz is right. especially on the sleep part. And imo if your going to learn C++ you may as well learn C first.

if you know one you can use the other (learning either first)

what languages do you know already?

what takes time to grasp is the concepts, but by learning the "worse" one you will not be waisting time

boris“, php, java, partial c and c++

how dreadful

that's better then my history when I started
heh

Mine too
Mine was Basic, QBasic, Pascal, HTML

javascript and gamemaker. no one started as as much of a noobcake as me

well sure i could include html and javascript but any idiot knows those

heh

I work for a hosting/domain reg company. You would be surprised.

no one knows html
thats why it's such a problem
heh

lol

which one?

Dotster Inc

ah

They own 9 bazillion freakin sub companies. Domain.com, My Domain and on and on

i only tried shared hosting once
it was a very nice experience (with dreamhost)

I'm a squatter on one of my firend's dreamhost accounts

indeed

would i be correct in assuming that one could learn c faster than c++?

no

note, i said learn, not master

rastafarian, you can learn the syntax faster probably (since it's less complex) but programming skills are not bound by syntax

C is the basis for php, C++ and various others. So actually learning the others is generally faster as they don't contain everything that C does generally

C's lack of "features" like OOP could be viewed as a lack of boundries

objective C exists of course

nod. One could also say though that if you can't create it in C you didn't read the right book.

Can someone make me a burrito in C?
:P

because from what ive been told, c++ was essentially over engineered, and requires about 10 years to actually master

lol. Okay, so within reason.

rastafarian, My experience with C++ is that it is very nice, but as you use it and mbed yourself in the details, it becomes a huge pain.

And you risk going to Visual C.NET eventually

class inheritence is nice and clean, but trying to do something like embed polymorphism into a templated object manager is archaic

anybody can help-me?
my problem in http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html , anybody can help?
my problem in a href="http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html"http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html/a , anybody can help?
my problem in a href="a href="http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html"http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html/a"http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html"http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html/a/a , anybody can help?

Shut up
or infact do the opposite
actually ask the question you wanted answered..
just don't repeat yourself

Your utilization of pdata seems flawed.
Review it
Don't private msg me.
Why do you have a struct to type data_t, called *1 ?

why i need array

that's an arry lks
errr
stupid writing what I was reading
that's an L

lksdfz, which correct form to use?

Hi

i need access data[position]-iIdade

..
for?

for read data… this case i save in "data" the infos from sgdb…
using my fuction get_nome();

Guh

learn how to use structs.

you declare a pointer pdata; but don't allocate memory for it ?

hello all

hi

yeh
my problem in http://rafb.net/p/LlWWNo96.html , anybody can help?
ops
struct data_t **ppdata = (struct data_t **)malloc(sizeof(struct data_t**)*10);

!pointers _segment_
!structures _segment_
Good luck.

pointers is http://pw2.netcom.com/~tjensen/ptr/cpoint.htm

dont cast malloc
!dontcastmalloc

There is no need to cast the result of library functions that return void *; it makes your code hard to read, adds no value, and can hide a bug if you don't have a valid prototype in scope.; see http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/casting.php

This must be the fifth time I've heard someone say 'don't cast malloc'
(today)

Maybe you shouldn't cast malloc so much then

It wasn't in reference to me, but thankyou.

Maybe you shouldn't hang about with people who cast malloc so much then

Maybe you should shut up.

hmmm
http://rafb.net/p/85cm5N77.html

Dont cast malloc

fax! i remove the cast, and don't exec…

what is the problem?

[jorge@jaspion tmp]$ ./teste.bin
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Good
Do you know why?

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0×08048468 in get_nome ()

right
in particular
l[cont]-sName

hmmm

now you allocated the thing that you passed to the function as l
but you didn't allocate each member of l

hmmmmm

so you need to loop through and allocate each one

i need alloc inside function
?
hmmm

yeah

ok buddy, i try now

and you probably would be better to use a struct data_t *ppdata, instead of **ppdata

if i only use "*ppdata"
ppdata[number]-sAge

instead of ppdata[number]-sAge, you would do ppdata[number].sAge

hara - np - sorry i didn't have a more detailed answer for ya - but that should get you off

Oh my
jayson_r - You one of those nerd perverts??

???

"but that should get you off"
:P

lmao - ever thought of it that way - i guess i should have said "that should get you off and running"

lol
Hey, anyone here know if Fedora will work with the ATI Xpress 200M chipset?
Or, is there a HCL somewhere on the Fedora site? Not seeing it so far…

I remember this happening a while ago and don't remember the fix… On FC3, the systems hangs at boot for a VERY long time at the "enabling swap space" line.

anybody run XP in a virtual machine every day?
i hae a howto that'll be of great use

craigbass1976 - found this thread for you http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=259217 - don't know if it will help or not

have*
http://venturecake.com/10-minutes-to-run-every-windows-app-seamlessly-on-your-ubuntu-desktop
works fine

three files were downloaded when opted for livecd. f-7.9.-i386-dvd.iso & f-7.9.-i386-rescuecd.iso & sha1sum.

should i pick dvd.iso or rescuecd.iso?

First of all, unless you know *why* you want them, you don't want 7.90.

and does the check sum calculation that k3b gurantee that download is reliable?

Weird. I am downloading the livecd as I type this, and mine says Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso

i would have no idea… those are the three files….

DVD.iso
rescuecd should be for repairing an already-installed system.

thanks again…..

no prob - glad to help

http://pastebin.com/m568926f2

anyone any recommendations for professional vide editing on fedora?

what does config.log say ?

Where can I find that?
hello?

Back in a while. Hopefully on Fedora LiveCD.

cool - good luck!

Did you try actually… you know… *reading* the error message?

jayson_r - Thanks!

phpusmo; yum install gcc
hello ivazquez

Hey.

downhillgames, thanks. should I try rebuilding?

i'm still sorta waiting on an answer from yesterday
phpusmo; you haven't built anything yet
that's what gcc does
shower time.

wait
okay I did rpmbuild –rebuild icecast.source.rpm
and it did all this stuff

sigh
phpusmo, look in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS

found icecast under i386
okay I got it installed but I don't know how to launch it
I did rpm -ql icecast

Yey, yum updates !

I found where all the docs are located and stuff, and I found the bin in usr/bin icecast
but it won't launch

there was a write error while updating RMA…?

wouldn't be safe to boot this disc now would it?

guys what are the prons and cons of yum vs compiling from source ? compiling is easly maintanable ?

yum is much more easy to maintain

If by "easily maintainable" you *really* mean "NOT easily maintainable" then you'd be correct.

the whole point of yum is to manage your software automatically so you don't have to bother with it

Hi, I'm trying to help a new user install ATI propietary drivers on his Fedora system. Unfortunately I have _very_ little experience with Fedora nor ATI. Is there a good guide/wiki/resource for installing the drivers in Core 7?

goodnight all

/topic

under what tool can I make my desktop automatically boot and login to a user with no password

gdm

gdbsetup?

gdmsetup should allow you to configure that

gdmsetup?
ok
I'm using xdm
so I'm guessing xdmsetup? or something like that
xdmxconfig

xdm doesn't offer that functionality I am pretty sure.

how do I list processes?

duvnell, you can only achieve that in xdm by writing a script afaik

ps aux

oh.. how do I switch to gdm them?
just install it?

apparently fedorasolved.org is having some server problems

is there an activesynv for fedora?

any other resources I could give this guy?

if you have a basic setup then gdm should be installed. otherwise install it with yum

jayson_r - Well, I was close… Booted sucessfully on the livecd on my laptop, but there was NO support for either my Atheros or Cisco Wireless NICs…

http://www.fedorafaq.org/#radeon

activesync*

I was BITTEN bad by system-config-packages yesterday.. I wanted to uninstall aspell (didn't think I needed it).. well I walked off and it AUTOANSWERED the confirm prompt

i have instelld fedora 7, and then when i d/led new kernel and compiled it, after i rebooted i got: "kernel panic, unable to open /dev/VolGroup00-LogVol00 something like that…

so gdm config got screwed up

what is the problem?

it wouldn't start anything on boot

duvnell; did you type -y in the yum line?

djs ah that sucks

duvnell, why have you uninstalled aspell?

you compiled a custom kernel? likely you didn't include lvm or some other important options that it needs to boot.

ok, I used that one on him before…. But he was still having problems. Apparently that ati config tool really screws up xorg.conf, or fedora does something weird with xorg.conf. Because after he ran it, he had no modules section

nirik:lvm? what is it?

jayson_r - So, there are no wireless drivers for Fedora?

hi people, I've been trying to enable mp3 previews over the past hour or so and cannot get it to work.. I have removed the original rpm using nodeps and then compiled and installed using a tar.gz of the same version, the libraries required for mp3 reading are installed.. and yet it still
won't preview.. have I missed something?

How can I respin the F7 liveCD? I don't see a kickstart configuration file for it.

logical volume management… see 'man lvm' or a google search on it.

oh and I'm on F7

Install livna-release, install kmod-fglrx and xorg-x11-drv-fglrx.

then try this http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=155503&highlight=ati+howto

see 'livecd-creator' that package has kickstart files that are used to make the livecd.

Do you have the MP3 plugin for gstreamer installed?

yup

not sure - i've never had a need to use wireless before

mp3 previews are done using sox

Under nautilus? I thought they used totem.

nirik:where is it in the kernel configration?

If they used totem.. I thought it would work 'cuz that is just a front-end for gstreamer right?

Yes.

if you cannot login, then is it usually not the login managers fault but caused by borked config files in your user accounts /home.
that can however be fixed pretty quickly.

anyone who knows if i can get my Windows Mobile Phone working under fedora?'

rename the hidden /.gnome and /.gtk folders

I know that the program/library is working 'cuz my .ogg s preview correctly

not sure off hand. Any particular reason you compiled a custom kernel instead of using the fedora ones?

its just not working for mp3s… which sucks

http://pastebin.ca/669612

/home wasn't touched.. only packages

Perhaps it is sox. But I don't know where to get a copy of sox built with MP3 supprt.

joke de vivia

Ok, I think he got it working now.

arctic01, I uninstalled aspell because I was going through removing what I thought would be unneeded pkgs on my [home] server host machine
it was running low on space

it seems that nobody does.. I've browsed round fedoraforum.org and the only help I could find was rebuild the src.rpm .. but didn't say how/what I needed to change

I know *how*, I'm just a bit short on time ATM.

arctic01, and when gdm was "broken" it would start in X but just sit there forever with a spinning arrow cursor

ok, no worries

but I"ll try to install gdm again

thanks for responding anyways

bonne nuit/good night

So, any ideas for wireless on Fedora?

Plenty, once FS.o gets back up.

it should be back up

what is FS.o?

djs_2_6, http://fedorasolved.org/ .. but you are looking for http://fedoramobile.org/wireless

daMaestro - Thank you.
I thought wireless support was part of the kernel. Was I mistaken?

For some cards.

djs_2_6; some are modules, some are directly built in.

how can I start a program that's in init.d?

either way, they work directly with the kernel.

service

Oh, ok. I could understand atheros having some issues, but the cisco card is surprising to me…

start

Yeah, Cisco *should* use the orinoco driver…

the wireless support in the linux kernel has been evolving very fast, and is sitll evolving very fast, new modules and new stuff gets introduced all the time, and some stuff havent had time to get into mainline kernel yet

is there anyother way?

start doesn't work

service is the official way.

Well, FM.o had nothing about cisco in the search, and only one thing on Atheros.

ivazquez, service icecast will start it?

what chipset does the cisco use, atheros ?

service icecast start

What's the PCI ID of the Cisco card?

Umm…

lspci

unrecognized service

phpusmo; chkconfig icecast on
this is why i say to just use /etc/init.d *shakes head*

[root@phpusmo init.d]# chkconfig icecast on
No such file or directory

On Windows ATM, because I have not installed anything else on my lappy…

phpusmo; it's in /etc/init.d/ ?

yes

You're the one that told him to use icecast for the service name.

what you had earlier was right except no . before /etc
ivazquez; what's the service called?

?

Okay, open up the Device Manager and drill into the info about the card.
Not a clue. Why not ask him?

wow..

I'm trying to start up icecast
but I'm not sure how to start it

phpusmo; as root: /etc/init.d/icecast start

Yes, I'm a dick. This is old news. You're not the first to discover this, and you won't be the last.

hmm.. what did i miss?

ivazquez; that's alright. i'm a bigger dick

What files does the package put in /etc/init.d?

Trying to start slapd. But gives me bdb_db_open: dbenv_open(/var/lib/ldap), bdb_db_open: Database cannot be opened, err 22. Restore from backup! /var/lib/ldap is empty, and on suse, it will create a new db…

/etc/init.d/icecast: No such file or directory

downhillgames, tsk tsk

if I take a Fedora livecd iso image and dd it to a USB key, what are the chances it will boot?

Zero.

phpusmo; as root: updatedb && locate icecast | less

I think there's a script to do that, but you can't just dd it over.

Man_at_Arms; is your USB key bootable?

just a general question

Man_at_Arms; it needs a boot sector to boot.

what's the fastest way to take an avi and burn it to a dvd so that i can pop it in and watch it?

ivazquez, I don't know. the guy on #icecast said it most likely installed an init script

wouldn't dd copy that over too?

mot; k3b or nero

it seems that transcoding it takes foreeeeever
right, i'm using k3b

transcoding is needed, unless you have a dvd player that can play avi files with whatever codec that avi file uses

transcoding is going to take a while

yea that sucks

ivazquez - I googled the model, and it is based on an Atheros chipset as well…

Did you find it okay?

'cuz I use dd to make a bootable floppy disk from an image on a linux hosting format dvd

well, would nero showtime work?

Ah. madwifi should work for both then.

fedora7test; dvds don't have different filesystems.
come again

thanx for the replies jengelh & downhillgames

ivazquez - Can I use that with the livecd, or does it have to go on an active install?

hello?

oh, sorry, I meant I use a floppy disk web hosting for online images (of Smart Boot Manager) from a linux format magazine dvd

You can, but you'll have to install the driver once you're booted into it.

Man_at_Arms; the motherboard BIOS needs to be able to boot from USB, your USB key needs proper boot info on it. or you can use a floppy or CD-ROM with grub

And of course, you'll lose the driver once you reboot.

ivazquez - Cool, so I can at least try it out…
Thank you.

Assuming the repo has the driver for the kernel on the live disc.

Oh…

That's not to say that they don't, just that I don't know if they do.

I am going to attempt to boot from a fedora livecd and install onto the usb key
I thought I could short circuit the process by dd'ing the iso onto the usb key
I may just try it for kicks

Man_at_Arms; that's all find and dandy but the key either needs to support it and go into a mobo that supports USB booting or you need to make a boot floopy or CD

I understand

mk
well gl then

I got the idea from #vmware
someone was trying to get a linux install on a usb drive to boot under vmware
we got it working as a raw partition
so I am going to try the same with a usb key
I can make the usb key look like a regular hard drive under vmware so I know it will boot

i tried booting my XP install under VMware (/dev/sda1, that is) and all it said was "GRUB"
even using the XP CD as a bootloader

no MBR
/dev/sda1 is only a partition you need the MBR from /dev/sda

do i _need_ to use /dev/sda?
blah

no but you would need to right the MBR
which would render it not bootable as a physical partition

but then risk booting my booted system… that could cause a _lot_ of issues

yeah its a mixed bag

i'm using a .vmdk

I have multiple hard drives so I just give my vm's separate disks
I am up to 4 drives at this point
you can also use usb hard drives for that purpose

i would but i've only got 2×500GB on here (only being 2, not the space)
my external died
http://evms.sourceforge.net/

holy crap my live cd download finished in like 5 minutes

I still can't get icecast to start

Man_at_Arms; lucky

1.8Mbps gotta love FIOS

i hate to ask dumb questions, but what does it mean when you try to join a channel and it says cannot join channel (throttled)?

aaah i'm stuck with crappy aDSL
kc8hfi; iirc it's a channel that has been locked by the IRCops of FreeNode

ahh, ok, thanks

if you keep joining it the server will automatically k-line you

No, it hasn't been locked.
Too many people have joined recently for you to join. Wait a bit.

then i'm thinking of a different thing

You're thinking of the jup channels.
You'll get auto-K-lined if you join one.

yes. jupped channels

uhm, and how do i know if a channel is jupped ? before actualy geting the k-line ?

it'll kick you once and tell you
s/kick you once/kjck you from that channel once/
s/kjck/kick/

ivazquez, so i'm finally seeing that giant update, oh great seer. 146MB in 44 packages.
(and a -65 kernel in updates (not testing) with livna lagging. have to rebuild the kmod anyway)

anybody know the name of the binary for avidemux?

livna should have the kmods already.

livna is fine here
everything but flash's sound is working for me right now. i fear updating/
s/\//./
i can't type today, it seems

right, now i see it. kmod-nvidia-0:100.14.11-1.2.6.22.4_65.fc7.i686

yeppers.
35 packages…
1 is from a custom repo… a few are from livna… not too many from Fedora, really.

how do I create a new user?

in the terminal?

yes

man adduser

100.14.11-1.2.6.22.4_65.fc7)

Hey, has anybody here sucessfully resized an NTFS partition using Fedora?

sure, even back in FC3 days
and now beryl gives a white screen

I did it with the f7 live cd djs_2_6

Having a problem with a software raid array. ls /dev/md* shows that md1 and md2 exist yet when I "mdadm –assemble /dev/md1 /dev/sd[abcd]3" I get "mdadm: cannot open /dev/md1: No such device or address". What am I doing wrong? I did try "mdadm -QD /dev/md1" to ensure it's not active and I got
the same response.

exist and functioning are two seperate things

raina, "lsmod |grep dm_mod"

downhillgames, f_newton - thanks!

sure

f_newton, many thanks

Damnit, had you /ignored on my other machine

i forget what it was now, but sure

peters-tx, ty

oooo GLX broke for me.
neat

f_newton, got the intel mini-pci card today, BIOS and Windows have accepted it so far

peters-tx, I think that was it

f_newton, just need to install F7 and try it

darn tab-completing nicks killing me again
rainabba, did you modprobe your dm drivers then I take it

peters-tx, modprobe md

rainabba, ok

/dev/sda3 has no superblock - assembly aborted" but I know the raid is valid, just shutdown from it. I thought I used "mdadm -ay" in the past. Am I confusing commands perhaps?

pembo13_com, great i think you'll find it works, but you need to get the -41 kernel at least. You may try downloading and saving the latest kernel first? so that you can install it right after installing the os?

rainabba, are you sure it is sda3 and not sda
f_newton, might be able to do a rpm –repackage etc

f_newton, cool… got a lot of work to do.. .so likely won't get get to that this weekend

peters-tx, I have a few arrays on each drive. sda1 is RAID1, sda3 is a RAID5. Given that, my -assemble command makes sense right?

f_newton, actually looks like yum supports repackaging automatically
rainabba, if I'm not mistaken, you should be able to tell mdadm to start everything, without manual options

?
bbiab

peters-tx: I think it needs the /etc/mdadm.conf file or similar, but that's on one of the arrays I'm trying to get active
Googling more now though

rainabba, oh my
rainabba, chicken and egg

peters-tx, Worse case, I'll reboot to thte array, copy the file and try again. The point is that I need to run tune2fs -j on an ext2 volume

rainabba, you can always mount ext2 w/o journal

You can add a journal to a mounted ext2 volume.

ivazquez, Yah? The article I was reading said different so my headaches are needless?

Just make sure to force a fsck before rebooting with it mounting ext3.

ivazquez, same command?

Yes.

So add the journal then fsck then reboot?

Plus "touch /.forcefsck".

rainabba, mdadm –assemble /dev/md1 devices=/dev/sda3,/dev/sdb3,/dev/sdc3,/dev/sdd3
rainabba, the expansion doesn't seem to be working

Sorry, /.auotfsck .

rainabba, you can add "forcefsck" on the kernel command line at boot instead if you like
rainabba, ext3 w/o journal == ext2
for the most part

is there an option on the dd command to -verbose? I don't see any option in man?

No.

–progress

rainabba, I have newer systems that actually I run ext2 on because I don't need the journal

But you can send it SIGUSR1 to get a progress output.

peters-tx, I know, that's the trouble. nVidia+Compiz keeps locking the system and the hard-reset required is wreaking havoc on the FS

how do you do that?

With kill.

rainabba, hmm. how did you install w/o being ext3 in the 1st place?

You can select ext2 in anaconda.

peters-tx, I choose ext2 (because I wanted the limited undelete ability that allows)

rainabba, wow. ok np
rainabba, ok then, go for that tune2fs .. but make sure it isn't mounted
'course

peters-tx, ivazquez just told me I can do it while mounted.
ivazquez, right? I didn't misunderstand did I?

You can add the journal while it's mounted. You just need to force a fsck before mounting it ext3.
So add the journal, touch the hidden file, edit fstab.

rainabba, well I suppose that's possible since it won't be used until you reboot.. you are basically adding another file

Then reboot.

^^
rainabba, is the journal on the root partition or a 2ndary (md1) mount

Ok, off I go to boot back into my real install. Btw, I tried using my F7 DVD to do the repair, but w/o mounting my existing / I didn't have any tools to work with and the point was to not mount (at that point). Did I miss an option, or is the DVD not good for recovery?
peters-tx, On the root

The rescue environment has limited options for recovery.

peters-tx, That is, I'm trying to add it to /

rainabba, DVD should be ok for recovery.. I'd probably have it search for an installed FS but not mount it
rainabba, it should at least have tune2fs and fsck

Even with a ro mount, I couldn't umount / when I tried.

You can't unmount until nothing else is using it, including lower mounts.

Well, gonna reboot into my install and resume. I'll be back here in a bit. Thanks for the help, I'll let you guys know how it goes

rainabba, why would you have been trying to remount /
doh
lol
I think he didn't realize the rescue stuffs mounts into /mnt/sysimage at least I think that's where it goes

hi all
i need help regarding SCIM

How do I tell fedora 7 about my wireless access and WEP?

Start the NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher services.

ivaxquez; they are both started.

Then click on the network trayicon and pick one.

poop
virbr0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:00:00:00:00:00
that keeps loading on boot
why?

what's the command to list processes again?

ps

"ps", i think

ps -eF to see all procs

ohk, thx

ivazquez, All went well and the partition is mounted as ext3, thank you

ivaxquez; Thank you, I finally got in.

can you tell me what is causing that to start on boot?
virbr0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:00:00:00:00:00
[mpeg2video @ 0×6cd9380]MPEG motion vector out of boundary

I want to login to my corporate network, but it requires that I enter a Domain/User and Password, where do I put them?

O_o i'll stick with my current set up.

does anyone know how to turn off virbr0 interface?

you want to map to a windows server?

Man_at_Arms; No, I want to login to the domain with Fedora instead of my Windows account. I have a machine name for Windows and at login I type AMR\pogonip and Password

#samba

Man_at_Arms; I have a machine name for my Fedora build and I need to know where I put AMR\Pogonip and PW.
Thank you again.

look, is there any way of logging in a windows machine (using openssh), with an account that has a empty password?

what do you expect to achieve by "logging into the domain"?

run system-config-authentication and setup winbind

I was told it was very dangerous to install grub on any drive connected other than the drive you want to install grub onto is that true?

installing grub onto a foreign disk can cause that disk to be not bootable

serioulsy? Its installing grub onto a USB stick . Wiki HowTO. SO I shoudl have the Sata Drive disconnected?

what is the url to the wiki?
grub can be dangerous
like a firearm if you point it at the wrong place you can kill stuff

www.damnsmalllinux.org

but grub doesnt kill people, people kill people
=P

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_to_a_USB_Flash_Drive
about midway down Method II Grub install
maybe they are refering to you being booted to a Live CD or another Flash drive and not an OS on a HArd drive?
They really don't say but they do say be on a Linux system

you should be able to point grub at a specific drive and it will install there only

running Sled 10 (suse) , it was tested on that system so I am assuming it ok to run the command for the USB stick right?
it specifies the device grub-installe /dev/sda1 in my case /dev/sdb1
I was told it was still dangerous to do that

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Installing-GRUB-using-grub-install.html

grub-install –no-floppy –root-directory=. /dev/sda
grub-install –no-floppy –root-directory=. /dev/sdb in my case

Hey, to do it right, how much hard drive space do I need for Fedora 7?

3 gb

So, 5gb would be sufficient to grow with?

ya

djs_2_6; 3-5GB is fine. if you go cra-raze-e with the packages and stuff maybe more but 5GB should be enough

Thanks guys. Backing up docs right now to resize partition and install Fedora.

3-5gb is all you do is install fedora. If you actually use it you can fill it with video, games, music, etc

if it's NTFS make sure to defrag first, djs_2_6
yeah 3-5 for _fedora 7_, anything else can be mounted from NTFS until he wants to dedicate more space
(the whole hdd haha)

I will defrag now. Thank you for the info.

sure
i learned from google, tbh

anyone know how te receive a file from a mobile phone?
using irda

Hello all

hello guys….. i was doing a boot time evaluation..just planned to try optimizing booting in fedora…… i found nash loading to take a chunk of time…. can it be bettered???

nash is in the initrd. Have fun.

you have quiet booting on.
nash takes no time to load.

hi, i would like the settings to use to add fedora to my existing grub menu, i installed to /dev/sda7

it takes atleast 2-3 seconds

and i have no clue why everyone is so concerned with how long it takes a system to boot.
and what are you going to do with those additional 2 or 3 seconds?

content myself that its 2-3 seconds faster…
;0

that's a poor reason.

jds2001, it's because nobody likes to wait. but i agree with you.. 2 or 3 seconds faster is nothing
bjds2001, it's because nobody likes to wait. but i agree with you.. 2 or 3 seconds faster is nothing/b

i can give u more

…

i already optimized boot a litlle bit.. now my machine boots in 50 secs inc gnome loading

i have systems that can take hours to boot, and i don't care.

i dream with the day a computer boots as faster as a TV or another appliance
*as fas

can someone just open up there grub menu and tell me what the settings are, the kernel name, initrd stuff and all that

*as fast

the point is… "i want it that way… i want the boot speed as minimum as it can become"…..

that's all system dependent.

Then don't shut down

and i believe very strongly that it has not been completely optimized and that there is a lot of space for imptovement

its on /dev/sda7, on 32bit using fedora 7

Find *specific* reasons then, not just "I saw this random program running and I don't want to run it".

guys.. if i can manage to even increase boot speed.. it will benifit other usersa too…. users who mind the "second" it takes to boot and not care abt the millisec

i tried to boot and it went into kernal panic, i think somethings messed up with my settings

sh" and "udev" is spending a little too anoying time.. on my otherwise evenly fast paced boot

Then find a way to speed them up.

but i really ont hav a clue….. i tried updating nash..but still no effect

do you even know what udev does?

(if only this irc was like the ubuntu irc, less debates, more help)

if only you had more brains… to wish…

i think ill use that space where i installed fedora to install debian and add the left over to kubuntu

kthxbye

sounds great to me

Hello…. I just installed Fedora… everythings great… except I can't seem to use the workspaces on a cube Desktop Effect… can someone help?

pcapazzi, did you turn it on?

yep
Wobble works

But you can't make the cube spin?

Ok… maybe I should ask.. how do I invoke the cube? I thought it was by click on the desktop chooser
(switcher)

No, I think it's ctrlaltand the right and left arrows

TY!
That's it! Muchos gracias!

You're welcome.

That's cool
Are there other keys for it? Or other functions?
I couldn't even find documentation to tell me about ctrl alt
ooooh… ctrl alt and mouse

Yeah

Lovin' it.. alrighty… have a good night!

logged in as root huh? good job.

haha
opsec; most linux channels ban root user joins. we should at least refuse help if they're running X as root

downhillgames, only if he's on a multi user system. If it's his own personal device I say let him run it as he wants.

bad logic

Why?

hi there, I'm trying to move from a local to yum installed php. But I've no clue how something installed via yum is ./configure'd. How can one pass build options to a yum install process?

One doesn't.

they are precompiled binaries for your system
ivazquez; see… i don't *want* to argue with people.

if you want to do that get the src.rpm and alter the spec, then rebuild

I don't mind arguing. Hell, it's one of the best way for resolving conflicts. But when it degenerates into childish name-calling, that's when it ends.

What do you recomend for a pop server?
Anyone

dovecot?

ivazquez~| thats 2 votes out of 2

is the .spec file in the .rpm file? How do I extract the rpm?

nod

It's in the SRPM.

ok thanks, thats enouff for me

i am trying to remount / file system to mount with rw .. its says its busy or already mounted .. how can i remount the / file system with rw ?? which is read only

mount -o remount,rw /

jds2001, thats tells me the file system is busy or ealready mounted

you're sure you're including the remount?

Did it tell you why it mounted it r/o in the first place?

maybe i should ask how it got in that state?

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BuildingPackagesGuide

jds2001, okay it works now
jds2001, actually i am getting busy error again

thx

how did it get that way?

actually it works thx

ok

one of the drive on the fstab is screwed up
so it put me in maintanace mode something

how are serial devices listed in linux??
ttyS0?

/dev/ttyS9
S0
yep

Im trying to get pictures from my Kodac DC280. When I plug it in I get a screen. I view it and its fine ( I see paths and files ) but when I go to access the paths or file I get "Could not read file Could not lock the device"

now I need to know how to do serial stuff, kind of like hyperterminal?

minicom

hi friends
help please
i have sshd running on my machine, and my router is forwarding port 22 and 23 to my local IP, but i can't ssh in

You're connecting to the external address from inside?

no, i can't connect to it from anywhere
it's a hughesnet satellite modem plugged to a dlink router

Did you try connecting to the internal address from inside?

yes, i can

how do you list the serial devices??

So you can't connect to the external address from either inside or outside?

right

Sounds like a router problem then.

ssh 67.142.130.19
connect to host 67.142.130.19 port 22: Connection refused
i have DMZ on right now

You put the machine in the DMZ *and* you forwarded the ports?

i just tried dmz because port forwarding was not working
the hughesnet is connected to the router, and a wireless AP is connected to the router as well
that wireless AP is bridging a connection to my wireless AP, which is connected to my desktop
from my desktop, i can ping and access the initial router

Does your modem act as a router as well?

i don't know, that's what i suspect
http://192.168.0.1 takes me to HN7000S system control center

That's what you need to find out.

and shows a picture of a hughesnet modem

I'm thinking it does then.

but i see no way to configure it from the web interface at all

That's because you don't know the magic URL.

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?p=1947734
err that's confusing

Hey Guys.. anyone know if i need a driver for a billion modem in bridged mode connected to my linux box, or just need to use rp-pppoe to do the pppoe connection to the ISP?

Don't spam multiple channels. Ask in the channel of the OS you're using.

ok sorry
it's fedora neway

Currently on my server only root can access files/directories outside of their user directory. If I wanted to allow someone to access a directory outside of that directory would I: chown -R user /path/to/directory

that changes owner

ok so I take that as a no…lol How would I allow them read/write permissions to a directory?

i know that chmod 4755 /path/to/executable allows users to execute programs that they dont have access to

anyone having troubles with the 2.6.22.1-41 F7 kernel?

read up on chmod

I keep getting 'Bad Page States'

ok thanks

i started this computer last night and got bad crc right off the bat.. restarted it and it ran fine

what's an easy to set up POP server? only going to use it once — want to have gmail collect all my mail

it looks like there's no hope for direcway/hughesnet
so i have my immediate solution, which is ssh'ing between 3 machines
but it's rather slow, so i was wondering if there'
is a way to speed it up

did you google "speed up ssh"

compression

i read that turning on compression is worse if not on modem
from the ssh manpage

you are on a hihg-latency connection.

how do you mean?

Damn it, I'm trying to update my kernel and yum gets a bad page state

alex[slx]; language

fsck

direcway has very long rtt

basically myh desktop connects to phenix.rootshell.be
and sits there, and my laptop connects to rootshell and accesses my desktop

what? 'damn'?

i think .be is in germany
or belgium

no thats de

and i'm in southeast US
belgium?
so what do you suggest, sir?

yah belgium maybe..
why are you doing that way

cuz i have direcway and you can't port forward behind it without paying $20 extra a month for a static IP

keep talking im on phone will be slow reponding

Say what? Port forwarding is independent of having a static hosting address.

exactly

normally, yes, but apparently only with the static IP service can you do port forwarding
as you can see from the link i posted earlier

some people thrive on over complication of their situation .. gotta have something to cry about day after day

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?p=1947734
in other words, you have no idea what you are talking about
that's a surprise

That's what people in the know call "bullsh*t".

that'd be you kid.

as you can see from every google hit, some direcway modems/services have a proxy running

ah

no, actually, i've repeatedly notice you have no idea what you are talking about, but i sit here and listen
and sure enough, you prove me right every time

Is the activity light on the modem flickering?

greetings

no
i;m well aware a static static ip hosting generally is not related, as i've been using dyndns.org for years. however, in this case, it seems to be
from everything i am reading on google

Interesting. The modem must be doing level 2 evil^Wmagic.

some versions of the modem seem to have a proxy that you cannot turn off
which is why i seem stuck with the tunneling i am doing, so i was wondering if it's possible to speed it up
you were saying direcway has high rtt?

Im trying to get pictures from my Kodac DC280. When I plug it in I get a screen. I view it and its fine ( I see paths and files ) but when I go to access the paths or file I get "Could not read file Could not lock the device"

did you try from command line?
the /media dir?

http://www.answers.com/topic/port-forwarding?cat=technology
go do some reading dipshit

you really are that clueless

woh
me

when you don't know something, you just start rambling and insulting people

dnot be rude

which tends to be 90% of the time i see you in here talking to people

?

did you try from command line?

heh

run xterm and cd /media

points opsec to the chatiquette

rossi-fl: it's no use
oh, it was jds2001
you were saying direcway has high rtt?

yep
like really high ping times…..

Any satellite service does.

man that really interrupted my gaming now

so you are saying despite the man page warning about compression, i should use it?

directway is crap

i think it would help in that situation.

rossi-fl: yes, but it's free
and cable and dsl are not available here

free?

so i live with it

fill me in on that free

although if it doesn't, you can always turn it off

rossi-fl: as in, my neighbor has it and he let me stick a AP into his router
i think he pays like $80 a month for it

oh that kinda free
but only 512 kbit

well, i've downloaded over 100kb/s a few times
which is far better than what we used to get
any other suggestions? do you know a server like rootshell that is stateside?

oh hehe and i get pissed if my download goes below 1 Mb/S

rossi-fl: before, i got 40kb/s at most

hmm lucky!
im on a cable speed test say y3 speeds but i dont get downloads of t-3 speeds.

hmm and my internet is free too curtosy of comcast hehe

when i was in asia i got lucky at that speed

im on comcas.
comcast

i work for comcast

nope…

sorry folks Im really tired.

ok, thanks anyway

nice rossi-fl

rossi-fl: the cable company said for $4,000 they'll install cable modem at the house i rent
so as you can imagine, i'm content with free satellite

they prolly have to run a fiber line

why 4k to install a modem?

no cable lines here

No infrastructure.

ah yes..

yep thatll do it and it sounds cheap

whwere do you live

4k to run a main line
not too bad

let's just say my neighbors are cows

yah musnt be very far from a main trunk
yah cows

if its 4k i can t be further then a mile or 2

pay it

yeah, but i'm moving in may so it's not worth it

thats my answer
good point

this is still far better than the 40k/s i had before
i can actually watch youtube without it skipping

yep but the lag is horrible

so i got anarchy online to run on wine.. its way faster than on windows.

PONG

rossi-fl: lag how?

abit unstable tho, to much on the screen and wine3d dies a horrible death

sattelite has a lot of lag

im just glad it doesn't need a phoneline anymore

haha yeah

it needed a phone line?

yep

wtf is that all about

satellite used to use a phone line for uploads
i think direcway actually did

no way your kidding?

yep its true they used dial up for upload

well, dishnetwork now charges you $5 extra a month if you have no landline and you have a receiver with two tuners

Yep. Satellite down, dial-up up.

ARfdee, not in the time I was in satcom
ivazquez, where was this?

and then them damn proxys they used

when i used to work at office depot we sold an aol thingie that was satellite down and modem up
err phone line

yep about 7-10 years ago

Then I went DSL and haven't looked back.

ha! DSL??

f*ck dsl

well, i wonder why WISE boxes have not come to the US
wireless broadband modems
that's what i used in asia.

ivazquez, i programmed and directed telemetrics for uscomsat for quite a few years and I don't remember any of that

i liked the internet that came through the 1st line of the tv picture

you point the modem at the middle of the city and you're online

yah i saw that tv stuff before..

webtv?

it was quiet big in germany
and faster thaen 9600k modems

im just excited i can use youtube on my phone now
unfortunately it's a WM device:O

iphone?

boooo

Q
but i can use it as a bluetooth modem with linux

a simple 2 WATT Satellite would transmit 30chan horizontal and 30 chan vertical

and transfer files
so it's all good

i miss the good old mailbox days

rossi-fl: so are you saying if i had a direct ssh connection to this satellite desktop it wouldn't be that much faster?
cuz the latency?

huh?

rossi-fl: weren't you saying satellite had bad latency problems?

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/teen-unlocks-iphone-from-atandt-network/20070824154109990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

yep

yeah i saw that

you can calculate the delay you get from the sattelite

i have ended up liking miro

it takes about 2-3 seconds till the signal goes up to the sat and back down to the uplink station for the request

ARfdee, latency is the biggest problem with any satellite communication but the amount of data you can transfer at one time is much more then a t3

Howdy, f_newton

would latency be the biggest factor for ssh connections?

howdee aTypical

well ssh seems slow i assume

ARfdee, do you know what the radar mile is?
signals travel at the speed of a radar mile and thus latency is the biggest problem

is that a fixed measurement or something that would be relative to my particular satellite?
oh ok

satellites are aprox 11,000 miles up

yep you have to get the signal up to the sat and back down to the uplink station
thats the biggest bottleneck

does that also affect things like skype?

it can cause a delay

its not a bottle neck because the bandwidth is huge but there is a delay

hmm

Can someone have a look at this and tell me what is going on? http://pastebin.com/d6cb47e00

not really directway limits it to 512 k

ouch, alex
when does that happen?

umm
every now and again

on boot?

happened yesterday when I was using VMWare

speaking of that

happened today using yum

dma prob?

cann someone tell me how to turn off, once and for all, on boot, the virbr0 in ifconfig
?

rossi-fl: I don't know?

i would try and set it from dma to pio and see what happens

rossi-fl: 2 questions. How? And what does that do?

when I first gave up working for the government rossi-fl I went around making a living installing satellite dishes for tv… back then they were 9 ft and 11ft dishes

i know hehe

I can still hook up to any of the comsats in my sleep

i worked for a web hosting company that makes sattelite uplink equipment and studio equipment

scientific atlanta?

www.videointernational.com
basicly broadcasting stuff

oh

good night everyone.. Im dead.

most of the stuff I worked with was milspec

nn

the space race n all

heh

now… lol Im a flunky
the wave of the future turned out to be a flash in the pan
lol

heh
and i got a hold of a hd bridge and converter

i got a hd with a lot of bad sectors that can't be read. I'm trying to copy off as much data as possible to another drive, however every time there is an i/o error, it gets stuck at that for a minute. Is that because it keeps rereading that sector? Is there anyway to have it read only once
and just skip it if it's bad?

http://www.videointernational.com/hdconverters.cfm?&&teaserItemID=8780&BBTeaserAction=ShowTeaserDetails&returnStartRow=1

Try dd_rescue.

can you have a look at this for me? http://pastebin.com/d6cb47e00

I did. Not a clue.

Ok. Thanks.

iceroff, its hard to really say exactly but usually its due to sticky bearings and the current increase in trying to keep the speed of spin up causes failure

you have to sacrifice a chicken and eat the error printout

I sacrificed some BBQ to the stomach earlier tonight
reminded me of the movie joe and the volcano

that doesn t count it has to be microsoft certified chicken

only this time the volcano won

Do you think it could be due to possibly faulty RAM?

think about it every chicken at walmart has a sticker like a dell pc designed for windows me

well rossi-fl with the amount of microsoft workers laid off over the years (especially since gates went india labor pool) Im sure there are a few old yard birds floatin around

yep
hehe

Khaytsus; ping
he's allliiive
do you mind if i PM you, man?

You got some free time right now?

Sure

alex[slx]; yes

http://pastebin.com/d6cb47e00
have look at that
that isn't just happening in readahead either

what's causing that?

lol thats what he's asking you
heh

oh
again*

i stick with the chicken

it does give some memory addresses right at the point of failure so who knows…. alex[slx] have you tried re arranging your memory slots to see if the data changes?

not yet
It's just done it again

Try memcheck? It ain't great, but it'll catch really obvious problems.

well what where you doing when it happened

rossi-fl: nothing

hrmm i need to send out the fedora dvd tomorrow to china

it happens randomly

randomly?

Xorg just did it now

is your memory overheating?

readahead did it at boot
and last run yum did it

try khaytsus idea running memcheck

no idea
yeah will do now

and after that set dma to pio
just to see what happens

alex[slx], also… isnt there a hdd test you can run?
it could be a bad hard drive

oh it better not be a bad hard drive
that'd suck so hard
it's brand new

alex do you have a maxtor or western digital or fujitsu?

WD

heh isn t wd a maxtor now

Someone reccomend a good+free online FPS for linux?

heh well …. didnt it come with a floppy or a cdrom for setup?

Brand new maxtors sometimes didn't last long. Had one die after 3 months.

rossi-fl, some wd's are made by seagate

\maxtor is crap

yum just did it

Seagate bought out maxtor?

maxtor has been crap since that taiwan earthquake 11 yrs ago

what's the command to run memtest? is it memtest?

Someone needs to buy out WD
And KILL IT

yeah but memtest is no longer included

ok

they should make solid state disks more cheap

that's what yum was doing…
pdflush did it
ahhh

rossi-fl, my hdds are all seagate, except for the one in this laptop and it will be as soon as I can afford one

i m booting fedora off a gigabyte solid state

Don't kill it yet. I have 758GB's of WD's Well 720GB. Missplaced on 38.6 WD drive. It's hinding around here someplace in spare parts piles.

I'm gonna take some RAM out and see what happens

the gigabyte solid state is 99$ without ram
the only setback is it only supports 4gb of ram
but its fast as hell

rossi-fl, I find it hard to believe that a flash chip will have near the life expectancy of a rotating magnetic plate

well fnewton i m running that thing since 2 1/2 years nonstop and it still works with no errors
and its not a flash

its reaching its term then rossi-fl

it uses ddr333 registered rams

lol solid state memory is based on the Texas Instruments flash ram

well i didn t know what else to name it since i have no clue what the actual name is thats why i m describing it
you could call it a ramdrive

thats ok I know what it is

i love that thing

oh yeah but just like lithium ion batteries, it has a limited number of cycles…. period

well we see how long it lasts so far i have no probs yet (knock on wood)

my seagate scsi drives were warrantied for 10 yrs and its been 14 and they're still going strong

yep them scsi drives are good and i still think it s the best system ever made

too bad my thumb drive is 10x larger than them though

haha i got a scsi drive bay with 30 9.1gb drives in em in my garage
i couldn t throw it away heheh

excuse me? your thumb drive is 2terabyte?
rossi-fl, you want to get rid of any of those? are they hotswappers for compaq or hp?

hp
it got 2 bad ones in em

how many?
I have a couple of bad ones

just as likely as your 14 year old drive being 200gb

no the old ones arent

hehe no i keep that thing its a collectors item hehe

I use mine
I still have 8 slots open on my 12bay
I think they're 32 gig sdodson

i got a hold of 15 30gigs from hp on ebay for 100$

or 33
really!
hotswappers?

yep

good price

i bought em for the tv station i was working at but they went bancrupt

I would have paid that

bought a hp netserver with 6 800mhz xeon cpus on ebay for 200
4 gig ram in it

never seen one of those. my ml570 has 4

its huge
ml 570 ?? thats one of them really tall ones
right?

its about 186 lbs

4 scsi slots in the front
yep

its rackmount and it has 12 bays in the front

damn even bigger hehe
yeah them are heavy mofos hehe

running 4 750 xeons if i remember correctly… its been in storage for 3 yrs
I have three gig ram in it

sup room

when the netserver arrived at my house that thing smelled like they rescued it out of a burniong house

f_newton; why don't you use it? :O

Anyone good at qemu ?

pip; anybody got a real question?

aright i m off to bed nn everybody

I had two of them one was a redundant server the other was our data server and someone broke into the storage room and stole what they could carry and cannabalized the other 570 but fortunately for me they left the one with only 5 hrs on it alone
i lost about 30 desktops and scores of printers etc

ouch. i'm sorry

downhillgames, I live in hotels now… I operate out of a laptop
this one here….

HP is nice, yeah

downhillgames, this is what I have http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unclearbc3.png

yeah well I had promised some guys in here some of my extra machines and when I went to the storage I found it broken into and tons of stuff gone

Someone reccomend a good+free online FPS for linux?

pip; not working. got a direct link?

it seems that site is down at the moment

i gotta go

UT2004

owns.
ut3, hopefully owns more

downhillgames, are you leaving ?

alien arena is pretty nifty

As long as they support linux natively

any EA fans ?
and channels for that ?

Looks like it was a RAM issue, I pulled one of the 512MB sticks out and hurray! No errors as of yet
I have 3 512MB sticks but one (the one I pulled out) is PC-2700.
So the timings etc. probably weren't correct.

alex[slx], there was a bunch of motherboards that had problems using 2700 sticks with 2100 sticks I think it was a via chipset
there should be a notice in the motherboard manual explaining the problem

Mine is SiS and I'm mixing 2 x 3200 sticks with a 2700
and the 2700 wasn't in the first slot.

keep the 3200s
that doesnt matter with sdram

yeah I will, I'll probably just buy another 3200 to get my 1.5GB

alex[slx], you shouldnt notice that much difference with a gig

Man I'm glad my HD is ok.

and a gig n a half

Yeah, I only had 1.5GB because I had spare stuff (the 2700)

well readahead problems can be a ram problem or a hdd addressing issue

I'll probably just leave it. Though it would be useful for VMware

lol vmware
never used it never needed it
I cant wait for my f7 bible to arrive

It's handy for messing around with things, and using windows without the use of a reboot (as much as I hate that)
What's that?

alex[slx], check out amazon.com and the title fedora 7 and rhel bible

Ok, will do later. I have to go. Bye

Hmmm, alienarena2007 scarcely runs on my system, even the menu is jittery

on the fedora download page, it mentions that there is a boot.iso image for minimal boot. I don't seem to be able to find that. Is it the same as rescuecd.iso?

kinection, isn't boot.iso for network installs?

well, i'm looking for something similar to the debian netinstall minimal boot cd
since i'm not going to be needing any of the desktop related packages

I don't think Fedora has something like that.
Although, I do believe there is a one CD install.

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/sn-expert-download.html

Well, I'm back. Resize of the NTFS partition went without a hitch…

i've i'm looking to run a fedora based server, would i just go for the live cd since it seems to be the smallest one, with the exception of the rescue

I am now going for the install cd, and while my live cd was i686, all I see for the install is i386, and it is huge…

kinection, if you can do the network install that'd probably be the easiest way to create a really minimal install. I didn't realize you were looking for a server.

where would I find the network install cd? it doesn't seem to be listed in the torrents page

kinection, it's the boot.img file.

yea, i'm having trouble finding that, boot comes up with nothing on the torrent area. and i'm apparently to incompetent to find it on the mirrors
unless boot == rescuecd ?

Go here - http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/sn-which-files.html

thanks!

I see that you can install fedora from the live cd, but I must have missed it while I was on the live cd. Where on the live cd is it?
bI see that you can install fedora from the live cd, but I must have missed it while I was on the live cd. Where on the live cd is it?/b

kinection, http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/sn-install-tcpip-config.html

there should be an install icon on the desktop djs_2_6

Crap, I must have just gone straight for the hardware options when I booted from the live cd…

f_newton, hey

hey
whats up pembo13_com ?

f_newton, been having a wierd problem since i installed the card, battery charging is fluctuating (at least in windows… i'm hhoping for now it is a awindows issue)

did you do as instructed? unplug the machine etc and install it firmly in the slot?

f_newton, seems to like you though, hasn't fluated for the past few mins
f_newton, yah.. re did it too

are the two retaining screws in place noticing that one is bigger then the other?
what windows os are you using?

f_newton, win xp, everything seems secure

mine is vista but everything works great
the battery issue is funny though

f_newton, i'll monitor the situation… fluctuations have paused for awhile apperently

are you online with it?

pluggign & charging

f_newton, oh well…. it is worth it if i can get fedora running with little issues

thats the plug end of the charger that goes in to the computer…. wiggle it

f_newton, done all that… done every possible thing
f_newton, charges fine when i shutdown the machine

make sure the transformer plug is firmly in the socket etc
thats not a mini pci card issue

f_newton, so it's either a flucating current issue, or something so

anyway…. both the ipw22xx driver and the iwl3945 driver are included and work on boot up

f_newton, i don't think it is.. just suspect it triggered something
f_newton, sweet
f_newton, you say i need to yum update immediately, right?

no its an issue with the charger unless you had current flow to your laptop when you pulled out the card
well I heard that the stock install kernel has major issues with connecting via wifi

f_newton, nah… could be the charge.. but that wouldn't explain why it works correctly with the computer off
f_newton, i see.. cool

if you have problems contact dragon_on_the_edge because they offer support after the sale

f_newton, ok.. could just be a stupid windows issue… wouldn't be suprised

the intel pro wireless abg cards are much better at both strength and range over the broadcoms
dont think so pembo13

f_newton, guess i'll start shopping for a new adapter

did you pull out the battery and the plug when you installed it?

f_newton, yes, i did

see if you have a small piece of trash in the socket of the laptop where the charger plugs in
instructions clearly said to remove the battery dude

f_newton, i know.. i did.. did it everytime too

ok
well then your installation didnt do anything wrong

i've had this issue before… just never lasted as long

its a separate issue

f_newton, yah, that seems likely

yeah could very well be your charger or the input circuitry at the laptop

f_newton, yah… may have to finally dismantle this machine

anyway… install f7!
no no no…. way too much effort
lol

f_newton, oh well, fluctuations have ceased for now

I'd google the problem n see what comes up
but pembo13_com you will like the wifi card

f_newton, already consulted google… didn't find anything conclusive
f_newton, can't be worse than the broadcom card, that's for sure

well its all for ideas anyway… google's not conclusive
yeah thats a fact\

couldnt install skype in fedora 7
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -i skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586.rpm
skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586.rpm: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID d66b746e
Failed dependencies:
libsigc-2.0.so.0 is needed by skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -i skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586.rpm
skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586.rpm: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID d66b746e
Failed dependencies:
libsigc-2.0.so.0 is needed by skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586
even after installing the dependency
installed still problem continues libsigc++-2.1.1
can any one help me pls

rosarioarun, yum localinstall skype-1.4.0.99-fc5.i586.rpm
rosarioarun, any reason you're using i586 instead of i386?

Yes, so you installed libsigc 2.1.1 and the package requires 2.0. You don't see this as some sort of problem because…?

i just downloaded it from skype site
clicking the fedora 7 link

Wow… the Skype folks are that incompetent?
Surprising.

mwilson, shh
mwilson, they may be listening
mwilson, guess someone did = instead of = in the spec

Why aren't you using yum to install it?

Uh, soversion's change when the ABI changes. There's no reason at all to assume that v2.1 of a library is downwardly-compatible with v2.0 of a library.

mwilson, i see

In fact, the reason a soname changes is *because* of incompatibilities.
Or, well, that *should* be the reason.

That's a file-level dependency in any case, not a version-level dependency, implying that the skype binary does in fact depend on that specific soversion.

installing this libsigc++-2.0.0 shows a make error

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

Once again, why aren't you using yum to install it?

FC5 is EOL, yet they're building their beta version(s) against it?
FC7 pacakges skype?
packages, even?

No one ever accused them of sanity.

skype has precompiled binaries from their site
static

Vulns from outdated libs and all!

good point

i will try with yum

One of these days I suppose I'll have to see if Skype is worth bothering with.

mwilson, humbug. worthless just like rss.

RSS is probably more useful.

RSS is worthless because the web is pretty much worthless.
Gee, get RSS so you can read summarized quick-bite cr*p instead of the actual crap. Wow, that makes real sense.
uGee, get RSS so you can read summarized quick-bite cr*p instead of the actual crap. Wow, that makes real sense./u
I don't have a lawn.

zcat, what's next?

inbox zero?

zcat, ?

omgsame2u
you started it. what what's next?

zcat, something soft

fyi folks I was incorrect … a geosynchronious orbit is 22,300 miles not 11,000 plus
I just remembered it
d'oh

f_newton, got that in kilometers?

nope
multiply it by 6
or whatever

hm.. i remember working that out several times before

Hello
I have a USB Keyboard. When I boot up Fedora 7, the Num Lock, Caps Lock & Scroll Lock LED's are on.
Is this a known issue, and if so, does anyone know a solution. Also, as it's booting up, it says something about a Device Descriptor Error

MinusSeven, but are the actually on? ie… do letters come out uppercase when you type?

no
That's right, the LED's come on, but caps lock isn't actually on, when I type, it's lowercase

MinusSeven, hmm…. never heard of such myself

Been searching on google, but nothing yet

hola, Fedorians!
can anybody tell me why Yelp uses scrollkeeper while, at live.gnome.org/Yelp, it says: Notecrollkeeper is dead. Rejoice. However, if you prefer to use scrollkeeper, you'll need thee patches ???
I mean, Yelp in Fedora…

Not your problem.
If you want more details, Fedora is moving away from scrollkeeper.
But not in F7.

;
f8?

Sup
Ive got Fedora 7 KDE Live.
I put disk in, reboot, brg me if i wanna boot on ran or hard disk, i just wait 50 seconds, afte that it goes to black screen, and says 2 things, that they were completed, and then it says Ready. and does NOTIN
anyone know why?

its trying to boot off the hard disk
tell it to boot from cd

and use ram?

yep

kk

it uses very little

1gb it says
is that true?

lgb?

?

brb

Hmm
dident work.
i tryed from all boot things
i get like zinuxz……………………………………………………………………………. and then a img file or somethin…………………………………….. then ready….
random
;p

fedora wish-list: #1 reiserfs suppt

ya really
hey raxz r u useing server or desktop?

desk

did u veryfy the iso?

wut u mean?

sounds like a bad img

Its this
o
DAMN, i wasted my cd

lol there only 2 csnts lol
*cents

;p

ref

i used
http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/releases/7/Live/i386/
im guessing wrong one?
i got KDE
one

one sec let me check

k

use the other one the one that dose not say kde
you can install it anyway

i dotn wanna install as main os
im testing out linux

wait one

?

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/releases/7/Fedora/i386/iso/F-7-i386-DVD.iso

u there ?

hi pkashyap

hi..
I was speaking to jason last night about making some fwd progress on the tree re-structuring work
he said we are waiting for community acceptance .
maybe a vote or something
what should we do to get this going ?

start converting stuff to separate plugins

would that summary here http://www.nabble.com/forum/ViewPost.jtp?post=12391568&framed=y&skin=134 be put as a vote ?

say what you are going to do on the dev list and start doing it
I think we can use lazy consensus

ok… when we start converting stuff to plugins… do we move them out of the trunk tree to the plugins tree ?
is that what u did with directory ?

yes
it wasn't really part of the main build though
you're going to have a bit of a problem in that an entire build won't work anymore

right..
so if the trunk build doesn't build for a while.. would that be a problem

yes
hmm
how about…
creating server/trunk/plugins
and moving stuff into there until we figure out how to assemble the plugins into a server?

what about the exisiting plugins tree ? move that to this new server/trunk/plugins ?

no
I see 2 steps:
1. rearrange the subprojects into plugins.
2. figure out a more plugin-based server assembly process

hmm.. ok

Starting (1) by moving stuff into server/trunk/plugins would let us think about (2) and try stuff out but the java server hosting could still be assembled just as it is now
when we solve (2) we can move the plugins out of server/trunk to whereever we decide
does that make sense?

yeah… it does..

have you thought about where to start?

no.. not yet
which is what I want to do.. get this going..

I think it will be easiest to start at the "leaves" such as with cxf and axis2 and myfaces
stuff that no other configs/plugins depend on

ah ok
like I said in that summary…when I do that move.. I'll move both the modules & configs pieces

excellent

cool

btw I'm hoping to have the new plugin schema stuff working today

is that the schema as atatched in G-3330 ?

then I will add in the artifact_aliases and config-substitutions stuff
close, but I made some changes
as outlined in the comments

ok

ping

hey Paul

hey I tried to send you a message, doesn't seem you're getting it
maybe I need to restart irc

hmmm .. I guess not … are you authenticated with IRC?

hang on… I will ping you when I am reconnected
sent you an email @earthlink

k, thanks

when we make these plugins… can't we not merge the jar in the modules with the car in the configs ?
say for eg.. myfaces component will have 3 plugins.. 1 runtime car with the jar embdedded, 1 deployer car with the builder jar host embdedded and 1 admin war
s/embdedded/embedded

I don't think we've ever tried that, does it work?
(I doubt it without modifications to car plugin)

djencks.. I don't know.. but would like to try
for example.. the car for the servlet-examples has the war embedded in it
I was wondering if there was a special reason why we installed jars and cars separately in the G repo..

I would actually have moved the other way, so javaee apps could be in the repo without being a car
and the car just had the plan/configuration for them
that however requires more classloader froufrou
especially since e.g. an ear gets lots of classloaders

in this note here.. http://www.nabble.com/forum/ViewPost.jtp?post=12023463&framed=y&skin=134 … did u mean to retain status quo… both jars and cars ?

yes

and the jetty-runtime plugin encapsulating both the jar and car

lets not do too many things at once?

ok

some things like the admin console are going to need to separate the war hosting and car since we deploy it twice

ok

maybe finding out if running the car plugin in the same maven project as you build the classes actually works would be a good experiment
and talking about this on the dev list
I'd like to think about it a little more

sure

Do we have a java variable we set that represents geronimo.home?

do you mean system property?
not that I know of
the 'official' thing to do is get a reference to the serverInfo gbean and use it to resolve paths
that way we aren't tied to a file system
at least not as much

Ok

if I get the plugin stuff to work from the command line but break some of the console can you fix it?

yes, won't have a chance to get started till next week tho due to holiday travel

ok thanks…. I'm wandering around in the console with little idea of what's going on

I know the feeling

ping
I am getting this error when downloading geronimo jee-specs.jar:
org.apache.axis2:axis2-saaj-api:jar:1.3-r562247
Cant find that dependency ^^
I wiped out my repo
but I still get it
org.apache.axis2:axis2-saaj-api:jar:1.3-r562247 does not exist in central
Are we pulling this from apache?

what does it mean for the system-database to be deployed as a "server wide" datasource?

basically nothing
this "server-wide" term is misleading and IMO should be scrapped

does it affect anything with JNDI or with how it is otherwise looked up or used from a gbean?

IIUC what the terms proponents tell me…. it refers to a datasource that isn't in an ear

that's from our build for 2.0.1 with our private repo … you can get it here: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/server/tags/2.0.1/repository/org/apache/axis2/

hrm. ok that is actually very relevant to why I am wondering…

arghg….thats a problem

so to look it up you'll need a dependency on the datasource module so its in the ancestor tree

we shouldn't be using that in trunk or branches/2.0

I am looking into making the system-database a plugin with an admin console extension
the only way I could figure out how to couple the admin portlets with the system-database deployment plan was to put them in an ear

it's going to be tough to get something like system-database as a plugin before the stuff that depends on it is plugin-ized
I wouldn't do that
back in a couple minutes

k
please ping me when you are back…

k

Unfortunately…its in our 2.0.1 pom
So anyone who tries to build anything
That depends on our specs
Which may be a lot of people
They are gonna blow a gasket
We need to move those "special" versions out into central

what would be really bad would be if users add this URL to the list of repositories in their pom :
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/server/tags/2.0.1/repository
SVN would not handle that well

I strongly digagree
Because people will be using our specs

I'm saying that would be *bad*

I think you confused me
Are you agreeing or not?

probably confused myself

The problem with adding that URL…
Is people dont know that
If I as a committer was totally messed up and cant build 3rd party code that has deps on G (like specs)…
Other people are gonna crap
I really think those "special" deps need to go into central
Or we are gonna get a lot of crap for this

right, and I am saying some clever folks might figure out that's what they need to do to make it work. and it would work, but SVN would blow up

Right…so…we should put it in central
Ill write a note to the lists

my only concern is that putting it on central implies that we will support and maintain it
maybe snapshot repo is better

well…dont we?

sorta

It *is* our special version
;-)
So I think we are stuck

can't they still build if they just check out the tree from svn? our pom points at that jar as a local repo

Yeah…but if I am building a web app…and I want to use the geronimmo-mail specs…guess what is gonna happen?
Or the jta…or any of our specs
I think its not right for people to have to check out and build geronimmo just to use a special dependancy

I see, so jee-specs has a dep on this special private jvm hosting version

yep
:-(

but people can still point at the individual specs like geronimo-mail without inheriting this problematic dependency, right?
IIUC jee-specs is just a pointer to all the individual specs we use to build a server

No…
jee-specs == parent == geronimo parent.xml
In my particular case…I am writin a plugin and need geronimio-kernel

pmcmahan … sorry, I was away … looks like you're right that we need to discuss it on dev …. ugh … these private builds are gonna get messy.

Yeah…Im getting an secure email server out

back

I don't like the private builds either, but am still not connecting the dots on this spec problem Jeff found. seems like the specs can be used independently without inheriting a dependency on this private artifact
I'll watch for that email

ok

thanks, you were saying that combining the system-database with its admin portlets in a EAR might not be a good idea ?

Look —
1) org.terracotta.geronimo-plugin:terracotta-server:car:1.0-SNAPSHOT
2) org.apache.geronimo.configs:geronimo-gbean-deployer:car:2.0.1
3) org.apache.geronimo.configs:xmlbeans:car:2.0.1

I think its' a bad idea

4) org.apache.geronimo.configs:jee-specs:car:2.0.1
5) org.apache.axis2:axis2-jaxws-api:jar:1.3-r562247
Look at 4 to 5

one thing we need to do is remove versions from a lot of dependency specifications

Yep…that would help

or we maybe could do that
next get axis to publish their *(@#$*( jars

ok now I see how jee-specs got in the chain. thanks

np

or copy the source into our spec project and release them ourselves

Did you just say a bad word???
:-)

on the system-database question.. my goal was to combine the admin portlets with the system-database component into a plugin, and an EAR was the only way I could think of. so far it seems to work ok, but I had a funny feeling about this "Server Wide" aspect

we need to be able to assemble a server without the admin console
so ear is a non-starter
you need 2 plugins
one for system-db, one for the admin
admin plugin has system-db as a prereq
I think there's a plugin bundle concept that might be useful

you will be able to do that even if they are combined into a single plugin

although just installing the admn plugin should pull in its prereq the system-db plugin

the way that can work is for the pluto-support plugin to handle the registration of portlets
the pluto support plugin is basically a container for the pluto jars plus the gbean that registers new portlets for the admin console

which pluto are you using?

I'm having some trouble explaining it without a whiteboard
1.2-SNAPSHOT

Last time I looked at pluto was around v 1.0
does it still create a servlet for each portlet?

ok, maybe a better idea is to implement as two separate plugins for now and then later we can decide if/when/how to combine them
no, it just knows where the context root where the portlets are available
just Strings
when you install the console plugin it will ask the pluto-support component where the plugins are at
plugins with admin console extensions, that is

I'm asking how recent versions of pluto work, not anything about the admin console
when I last looked, there was something that built a web.xml from the portlet.xml and created a java servlet hosting xml for each portlet xml

there is a "container" component that holds all the configuration data for the portlets. it does not create any servlets or portlets, or any references to them

aha, so they've completely changed how it works

yes. there is a portal "driver" component that knows how to ask the portlet container which context roots the portlets are available at, and it lists them in its navigator

interesting…. what do they do about portlet sessions?

it piggy backs on top of http session, and you have to set cross-context

they used to basically reuse the servlet container session management but I don't quite see how they can do that without any servlets
what does cross-context do?

pluto's portal driver is really just a web app that handles all the incoming requests for the portlets. it knows what context root that are deployed at and does a cross-context dispatch to get their content

if it does a x-context dispatch there must be a servlet in the target context

there is a pretty decent graphic on their web site… sec

which is not what I understood you to be saying a minute ago

yes, portlets that are added to the portal are bundled in WARs. those WARs have web.xml that references pluto's portlet servlet
but the collection of WARs that make up the portal are only loosely connected by the cross context dispatch mechanism

so now they have something that adds a single servlet "instance" to each web.xml ?

you can install a WAR that contains portlets without having installed the driver

anyway…. what I was wondering is how you can make this work on jetty and tomcat without 2 configs
since there appears to be at least one servlet in a deployed portlet app
thus it has to go through the normal geronimo web app deployment process

here is an example of the web.xml for an application containing porltets
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/plugins/plancreator/trunk/plancreator-portlets/src/main/webapp/WEB-INF/web.xml
so far I haven't been able to figure out any way to have a webapp that works in both tomcat and jetty

how did that servlet get into the web.xml?
that's not a "pure portlet app"

I put it there but they have a maven plugin to read your portlet.xml and put it there too. but its buggy
mangles the xmlns

I thought we'd have a PlutoMBE to do that
or perhaps just install the appropriate gbeans in the plan (at least for jetty)

yes I haven't gotten around to looking at that yet..
that would be a cool idea too

is there one servlet "instance" for each portlet mentioned in portlet.xml?

yes, and one servlet mapping

so that's the same way pluto 1.0 worked …

the servlet instance is a pluto servlet with a context param telling it what the portlet's real classname is
yes that part is the same
what is different is how the portal page is assembled

anyway I really don't want to ever force anyone to have anything web related in their server unless they need it

instead of everything in one app you can have portlets spread across several wars

so I am strongly against packaging something like system-db in an ear with its admin stuff

ok I see your point, my assumption when I started working on this was that our baseline assembly was tomcat-minimal and jetty-minimal

no, its framework with no web stuff at all
at least IMO

I agree that's the best way to do it architecturally. I just didn't know if we were really going to step up on that

yes

well with you behind that idea it will go much further

it's not really any harder

gotta go put supper on the grill …. back later

test
did someone say something to me? stupid colloquy keeps freaking out and not showing text
hrm, I just nuked all its stupid settings, maybe it will behave now?

hi jason, you there ??
does anyone have any good examples of invoking ant tasks from a maven pom.xml ??

i seem to recall that our tck setup invokes ant

oh i forgot about that–thanks !!

isn't mod short for modification?

If it is, then the mods would also have to be under the GNU GPL

hey. Anyone know how to get a cubic root using bc?
the man page says nothing

I don't think bc can do it

well is there any alternatives?
some other tool that could

why not use a GUI calculator?

because 1) I don't always have access to X11 2) I like to use terminals

fair enough

http://www.phodd.net/cyrek/gnu-bc/bcfaq.php#bccbrt

ahh thank you, koollman

(or, 'why not use google', either to find the result for bc, or to directly find the result )
you could google for '27^(1/3)'

oh right I didn't think of that
actually I tried google but there was no cqrt() function like there is sqrt()
yes, I calculate lots of tiny stuff using google's calculator

or even '3rd root of 27'

oh I didn't know you can do that

Anything bc can't do I'm sure octave can.

yeah.. but that may be a little over kill for my needs

Heh

I had an doubt about `cpio`, is it the right channel for ask?

quincas-borba: it's a good channel to ask

koollman, ok

../out.img"

Stallman

Is there a free replacement for Java Runtime Environment?

gnu has a java hosting version
it sucks however, even more than the normal version

Sun is open sourcing its runtimes, no?

Slowly, yes.
Is it stable?

it's very nice
what java program are you trying to run?

Some silly website wants java to upload files
It could do it with plain HTML really.

Why are you using that website?

I'm not, I'm helping someone else out.
It's a university's website.
Students log in and submit their work online.

gcjwebplugin has not been security audited yet
so i wouldn't recommend running arbitrary applets with it

In English?
applets?

applet is a java program that has restricted access to your computer, kind of a sandbox

One would think reputable educational institutions have websites with more than an iota of consideration for the visitor.

so when you visit a site it can't "rm -fr /"

oh lol
ok

You ideally need to allow the applet to access your filesystem explicitly.

0_o
Sounds bad

I expect their backends are all .jsp and that, eh.

lindi-: the site would probably try to "format C:" anyway

A "university's website"?
And "format C:" does not work if you're on a Unix (:

the "icedtea" project tested merging gnu classpath and the free parts of sun's hosting with java support environment
but i have not tried it myself
it'll probably enter debian soon

Is there a deb package I could try to install?

i'm afraid not, icedtea is really experimental now

Email the file to them?

oh ok

With a very rude complaint attached.

being rude rarely helps :/

Rude as in sarcastic and condescending. You know, IRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IcedTea_(software) but i have not checked the factual correctness of the page

Is this the same as JRE? http://directory.fsf.org/SableVM.html

and http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page of course
sablevm is one of many virtual machines
cacao, jamvm, kaffe, gij are others
what really matters is the class library, kind of like glibc but for java
bwhat really matters is the class library, kind of like glibc but for java/b

OK…
Which one can I download and install to let me use this website?
A free one.
:/

at present i can't recommend you an insecure solution :/
maybe if you run it inside an emulator

Not even to run on a test machine?

hi all

apt-get install gcjwebplugin

ok
Thanks

but be careful

ok

here it installs symlinks /usr/lib/mozilla-snapshot/plugins/libgcjwebplugin.so /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins/libgcjwebplugin.so /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libgcjwebplugin.so /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libgcjwebplugin.so — if you have some other browser (like iceweasel) you need to copy
libgcjwebplugin.so to somewhere where they find it

I installed it on a PC live booting from a gNewSense CD, but I don't think it helped.
The website looks the same.
eh

This is pretty sweet.

hmm, did hepart?
(my client does not show parts or joins here)

My advisor has asked me to teach all of his undergrad numerical analysis to code in [GNU/]Linux.
In C.
Suggestions on what development environment to teach them?
I'm not sure if Emacs will scare them away.

numerical analysis?

lindi-: Yeah. Finding roots of a nonlinear function, numerical integration and differentiation, some linear algebra, that kind of thing.
I mean, *I* usually just do everything with the One True Editor, but I don't think it's correct to impose my religious beliefs on anyone else. At best, I would have to show them a couple of alternatives and let them decide.

nano is simple?

I've never tried using nano as an IDE. How is it for that purpose?

no it's only an editor

Hm.
I wonder if KDevelop would please them…
Or if I could tell them there's Emacs, but some infidels swear by vi.

does vi support gdb?

Yeah.
Er, I think.
I'll probably have them debug with kdbg, though.
And then, when the course is done, I'll tell them that someone has already done they were doing and much better, and it's called the GNU Scientific Library, and that they will never again have to code a numerical integration routine in their life.

don't such courses usually assume knowledge in C?

Kinda. They're supposed to know some things, but not many.
They've never touched free software, though.

One can touch a rock without knowing what it is.

is Eclipse too heavyweight?

Heh, well *I* have never used it. And it's very Javaified, no?

there are C++ plugins I think
but yes, it's a memory hog

you can get a native compiled version too

not all distros have it

Well, memory hogging is a problem. memory is at a premium in numerical code.
And these kids' code is gonna be as leaky as an unstaunched wench.
Memorywise.
It's mostly that I don't want to bombard them with Makefiles, gcc flags, an IDE, plus the vagaries of C itself when the course is about understanding numerical algorithms.
Oh, and bash commands.

nano + gcc is the simplest i can think of

and the Emacs OS

Then I would reconsider C…

I really do think Emacs is probably the easiest way to get them introduced… but I wonder if they'll hate it as much as I did.

a real IDE by definition can't be too simple

C is non-negotiable, really. Prof wants them to know C.

did you look at stuff like anjuta?

No. That's for GTK coding, right?

well, you can use it for that, but any C coding really
It has a debugger, some API docs, etc.

Well, if they know "some things", you might presume that they know about the preprocessor, bits about compilation stages and make…

They've only ever compiled with Borland Builder, I think.
Which doesn't use Makefiles, but projects.
I think some Borland compilers can use Makefiles, but I'm not sure about Borland.
Er, about Builder.

it doesn't use gdb?

It's a good option to know about. Kdevelop might be another.

hi
Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer.

lindi-: I would think it is gdb

lindi-: I presume so_solid_moo means that Anjuta has a frontend to gdb.
Indeed.

what does one means by not as in free beer

free beer refers to "zero price"

"Free beer" usually means that people are giving away free without charging a price for it.

ok

What other languages do you speak? The free beer/speech confusion usually only exists in English.

can you explain with some examples

I like how current dictionaries include "for no paymet" for "free", but this old dictionary I have here does not even allude to anything concerning money in its entry.
s/paymet/payment/
Just goes to show what we've become.

Skype is free beer. You don't have to pay money to use Skype. But it's not free speech, because you are forbidden from understanding how Skype works.

ok

Sure it is, skype never censores me!

Are you serious?

Yes, I can even swear on it!

it's just a little bit of morning trolling

picking a telephony app to explain free speech

Heh.
I just have Skype in mind because someone dared suggest adding it to Debian's non-free, and there was a bit of an uproar.

i wish the vote to drop non-free would have passed :/
have you used pulseaudio?

lindi-: Without non-free, there would be no GFDL docs. :-/

i'm sure that'll get sorted out in 10 years time

Consider a car. If a manufacturer gave you the car in a contest and you didn't need to pay for it, but you were not allowed to let other people drive it, that is free as in free beer. Even if you paid money for the car, if you are allowed to let other people use and drive it, that is free as
in free speech.
(A crude, simplified analogy)

Skype does not respect your freedom. Since its protocol is proprietary and secret, you can only use the Skype software to talk on the Skype network. You can't know if eBay is listening to your conversations or recording them.

ok

OpenWengo, by comparison, allows you to use different networks and discloses all of the details of how it works. It also lets you modify it if you don't like how it works, or you can hire someone to modify it if you don't know how to do it yourself.

wengophone in debian unstable only works with wengo though .)

lindi-: Well, but there's nothing from stopping another company from creating a different network on which you could use wengophone.
nothing stopping …

sure
but still, have you used pulseaudio?

lindi-: No, never.

i have "thin" clients that only run vnc viewer and pulseaudio, i haven't managed to get any voip program work well in this situation :/
i have "thin" clients that only run vnc viewer and pulseaudio, i haven't managed to get any voip program work well in this situation :/
?

Why would anyone want to kill X?
I mean, besides zapping it.

hi
i have a question about GNU Screen - i used GNU screen in a urxvt and i really use that ctrl+arrow keys (to jump a word left/right) much - just that it doesnt seem to work in a bash in screen in urxvt
any hints where i could start looking

hi

hi holzplatten

Nebukadneza, I'm pretty sure rxvt uses different sequences than (say) xterm to represent ctrl+arrow keys… it's conceivable that GNU screen doesn't recognize them/doesn't pass them on.
urxvt seems to use ESC O d, ESC O c, where xterm seems to use ESC [ 1 ; 5 D, ESC [ 1 ; 5 C.

ah, okay

does anyone know of people succesfully compiling java native interface code with gcc4.x?
I'm having some problems, which I'll throw up a url for momentarily
fugghedaboutit, victory is mine
missing a -I

hello honorables

Hello dishonorable.
:P

hehe
is Stallman still in Peru?

RMS is safe in Peru

don't know if that's yes or no

is Stallman still in Peru?

for calculating your time offset

thanks

hello, I am quite involved with a comunity built around supporting children with learning dissabuilities. These parents, who seem to use entirely windows and mac, are allways buying software, which is usualy priced in the range of 50-700 dollars. This is very simple software in most casses and I
beleive that even given a requirement of windows support. it is probably avalible open source, does anyone here know of a directory

of a directory about…?
here it is not about Open Source, it is about Free Software )

well, a list of open source software programs, that run on windows, and are designed for children

In english?

hrmph

I only know of a good in my country, but such download sites always have filters for licenses…
So you can try Free Software or, at least, Open Source

try asking on #ubuntu

Or you can just consider using GNU Free Software )
Yes, for children…

don't you think they will want me to get these cluless people to move to linux?

…damn I allways admired IBM now more than ever.. for its sleek moves

timthelion, Please don't use the word "linux" to refer to the operating system.

for now at least ubuntu is the most user-friendly system out there ..
bfor now at least ubuntu is the most user-friendly system out there ../b

Unfortunately, this is GNU, so AT LEAST HERE, use GNU / Linux form )

timthelion, GNU is not concerned with making money. That's the job of the Royal Mint.

gnu / free software is not all about making money… is a movement

hahah

try asking in #ubuntu… open source.. you know

timthelion, I would check out http://directory.fsf.org/education/

well then how does open source and gnu differ?

primarily in philosophy.

MATH!
Better, ENGLISH! So they will know how to learn the missing ) !

ohh that looks usefull, thankyou

"Open Source" advocates will tell you that open source/free software is more reliable, cheaper and better than proprietary software.

ahh,

timthelion, We'll tell you that we hope that is true, but it's not the most important issue.

you need to look for the easiest open source system, for kids and for the pockets, go for ubuntu

Azar, ubuntu has illegal pieces, you just supported non-free )
Try #GNewSense

Azar, unfortunatly, parents do not feel comfortable, and many of these parents get the computers through the school, and thus they *must* leave windows on them.

so IBM quietly goes and marry Sun, to better place its pieces on the chess tables thus telling MS-Novell and RedHat-etall "we are here and ready"

timthelion, Why "must" they?

I just read what timthelion needs, and I doubt Hurd or Debian Hurd will be an easy OS for kids
uI just read what timthelion needs, and I doubt Hurd or Debian Hurd will be an easy OS for kids/u

"format c: , it is easy as 1, 2, 3…"

Azar, But that's not the primary focus of GNU, so don't dwell on it.

they must, because they don't own the computer, the it department does.

So?

Azar, Hurd is a kernel, not a system, and you can make a free system with linux host since the 90s )

timthelion came here on the wrong place, he looks for something for the kids on his town, school , not to talk about free software

That may well be true.

though as you see, I'm also talknig about free software, after my question was answered

But while he's here, let's tell him how free software can help the kids.

He came uninformated, that is not a sin )…

oh ok so we can talk about FS then

yes

And we should help him with this here

just not mention MS again..

as you see, I have different ideals

timthelion, Presumably these kids are in your home town, not some 3rd world remote place?

remove all ms from those computers and install Free Software

yes.

jmd, I am offended, I live in a remote place from the so called "3rd world" ) !

folks isn't that annoying? 4 years ago I completely removed windows only to install linux, now I want to remove linux to install… hmm Hurd?

tvtoon, Why are you offended?

You spoted like if it is the end of the world…
It hurts! )
There is Gigabit Internet over there, and coke, and chinese food, we are at the top ) !

tvtoon, Brazil is hardly the end of the the world, nor remote.
In fact, I live in the most remote city of the world.

ahhhhhh Brasil, beautiful language, great places

I think the UN classifies Brazil as a 2nd world country.

you in that cabage farm in the antarctic?

Caipirinha, samba and naked women, I know ) .

timthelion, Almost!

where then?

Perth

I have been reading about Perth .. when I was in school..

Don't believe anything you read!

it's in australia, it has a freeway

was a novel…
every place has its charm

it has 5 freeways

timthelion, Not really. It has 2

I have a cousin in Sidney

Azar, Sydney

oh sorry… yes, Sydney
well at least the history of Australia is interesting..

I live in a plastic and asfalt heaven created by microsoft money

Yeah. A bunch of criminals got esnt there, and the rest is history.

jmd, hey, if I got sent to australia for not paying taxes, hell, I wouldn't pay taxes!

which were not "criminals" at all in fact, poor people who the snubbish british society wanted to get rid of

is that spelled snobbish?
with an 'o'?

no it is "snub" "snubbing"

a different word then?

Well they had all been convicted for breaking the law; even if under mitigating circumstances, and unjust laws.

although I know others like romanians writing/pronouncing it "snob"
because the british laws were ment to help the rich…. not the poor

Unfortunately, the Pommes had just lost their colonies in the New World, otherwise we'd have sent them there …

therefore that type of justice was a fake

in the US, there is a word called snobish, which seems to mean that a person is ireverent towards others of lower class, and takes irreverent joy in their irieverentce

Azar, not much different from today then.

well, nowhere in the world is everything perfect

Azar, not even norway

you know that there are people from some countries eyeing and dreaming to go to Australia, in order to gain some freedoms they can't enjoy in their homeland

Yes. They are deceived however.

hmm, is the southern hemisphear warmer? I should think, perth being so far south, that it would be cold there.

timthelion, Perth regularly has 40 degC in the summer. How far south do you think it is?

as far south as Redmond(where I live) is north

Hmm. That's about 40 degrees ?
latitude I mean.
We're a lot closer to the equator than that. We're 30 degrees south.

47 degrees north
hmm, but you're very close to the northern tip of antarctica, is that northern tip not frozen?

"Very Close?" — about 3000 km away.
actually maybe a bit less, I haven't measured it.

we are similarly close to the frozen north in northern canada, forinstance the yucon plateu is uninhabited(though elevation may make that colder)

Yeah, latitude is not always a good indicator of cliamate. But anyway Perth must be one of the warmer places on earth. It rarely drops below zero, and that only happens at night time in winter (like last night).

it rarely drops below frezing here either, however it is usually bellow 55 ferinhight(grr, can't spell)

That's about 12 deg in old money?

jmd, miami never drops below 0

yes 12

It amazes me that a technologically advanced country like the USA used antiquated imperial measurements that the rest of the world dropped 50 years ago.

Huum, Microsoft making highways, when those plans will come here, hehe

yeah, I never knew exactly what a "foot" is heck not everyone has same "foot" length…

here in the us, everyone is either a pot head, acts like one, or feels that europe is snobish and feet are a good enough method.

a "stick" a "yard" a "foot"..

I use metrict for distance, 24 hours for time, ferinhight for tempurature(except when using electronics, then I use C)

What do you use for your Mars space probes?

anyways it is so hot here, where I live I have to shut down my PC every night

in the us, it is against the law to label things without including what jmd calls old money

That's also true in the UK I think.

I think we switched to cm after that one crashed when the french labratory programers sent a cm argument to a function that took inches.

timthelion, When did that law come in?

Azar, shutdown at night? WHY?

too hot

Why not at the morning? )

the lmsensor warnings..

it's a consumer protection law, to make sure things are fairly, and acuratly packaged.

It is hooters at the night? )

because all the hot from the day sticks indoors at the night

I shut down my computer at night

timthelion, There was no metric labels when I was last in the US (about 6 years ago).

jmd, no, the law says you must use non-metric, us

Put sand in your house, will prevent this

timthelion, BTW, you're the only american I know who uses metric for distance. Alll the others use Miles.

it's the walls that suck the heat and push it indoors at night

it's because I run track, am in to phisics, and have a centemeter tape mesure because the rest of my family lives in the Czeck republic and some cosin who I don't know gave it to me.

Argh, build a wood one )

Actually, what makes US measurements so incomprehensible is that even their gallons aren't 4.5 litres like they're supposed to be.
It seems that rms survived the earthquake.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Reports:_Richard_Stallman,_founder_of_GNU_Project_missing_in_Peru
in that picture.. he looks like Rasputin

How do I statically link a library?
What is the syntax?

Hello, people. This question may be a bit out of topic, but the folks at #linux are tangled into religious discussions, and I need the help… I want to connect my GNU-powered laptop to the internet using my friend's MacBook (which runs OSX). She's connecting to the internet with the Airport
Extreme, and I wanted to leech from her through an ethernet cable. Does anyone know how to setup that?

$ gcc foo.c -o foo -llibname -L/bar/baz/libdir

Jafet, That's static?

Err, yes?

Jafet, Thanks.

Or did you mean something else by "static"?

Jafet, Nope

Uh… how is that static?

Linux is not the only OS with gnu software. Unfortunately, I can't help.
…OSes*

Gatonegro, she'll need to set up a forwarding rule.

Yup… I've managed to do that already. It seems to be working… turned out that the task was easier than I thought.
Thanks all for your help.

Trent, you probably want to add -static.

micahcowan, I don't think so. That's needed only in exceptional circumstances.

jmd…. by default, gcc links dynamically.

micahcowan, It'll link however the library is designed to link.

jmd, yes, and if both dynamic and static libraries are available?
If he wants only static host linkage, shouldn't he specify -static? Unless he knows for certain no dynamic libs are available anyway…

In that case I would have done "gcc foo.c libname.a"

jmd, sure, but then you need to know the full path to libname.a, no?

Yes. Like you would need to specify on -L too

jmd, the difference being, that you can specify several search paths on -L and let gcc do the searching.
gcc foo.c libname.a is how I would do it too, manually. But in a makefile (say), -L / -l would probably be preferable.

right.
Jafet, btw, normally one would do -lname not -llibname

libiberty wins the Most Terrific Library Name award
Even if these days it's been pretty much replaced by gnulib?

Clarification?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasyntactic_variable

Jafet, he means, if the library file is libname, you'd use -lname.

Yes, micahcowan, I know.

Oh, started typing before your second line ^_^

I am clarifying the use of the -l falg to Trent.

I'm not sure what there is to clarify.

s/falg/fag/
s/fag/flag/

lol
micahcowan, Is linking with the .a static vs the -l?

-l can also link with static. The difference is it can also link against shared, depending on what's available.

micahcowan, -l links the shared?

Either specifying the .a file directly as an argument, or specifying -static, will force that library to be linked in statically.
Trent, -l links with any library, shared or otherwise.

micahcowan, Awesome, thanks.

I don't know what would happen if you said "gcc foo.c libname.so -static"

jmd, heh, I was just trying to look that up
Oh, not the -static, tho. Will it work like that, without the -static?

I don't think so.

How would I copy a hard drive that has gNewSense GNU/Linux on it? I want to make an exact copy of it.

dd if=/dev/diskdevice of=harddrive.img

:/

you need to replace diskdevice with the name of your device

Not from a .img file
From another hard drive

and of course you need second disk
well, contents of this disk are written to harddrive.img file
harddrive.img is *output* file

oh ok
so i dont have to do anything to the source hard drive, just plug it in

well
it depends what do you want to achieve

exactly the same

and then what do you want to do with it?

put it in the same machine
I'm just wanting to put a bigger hdd in the machine

hm, i'm not sure if my answer will work in this case

?

it would copy *whole* disk
mbr, partition table

That's what I want
sounds like what i'm after

i named my cat GNU

dodek@hemlock:~/pywikipedia$ whereis cat
/bin/cat
i've got your cat!

hehe

blazemonger:

no nooo!!

Well I'll try it and let you know how it went, Dodek

Davo_Dinkum, after you make disk image, you can write it on another disk
well, in fact you can copy disk on the fly

With dd?

if=/dev/olddisk of=/dev/newdisk

ok

though you need either third disk to run system, or some livecd

Ah right

mm
FreeBSD is a free software license isn't it?

FreeBSD is an operating system, not a software license.

FreeBSD, which is mainly under modified BSD licence, is a free software.

ok cfool
FreeBSD does run on my desktop
links and links2 have become my favorite web browsers
fravia is a very brilliant guy..and so is stallman although I do have a few differences from him, but I'd like to meet both.
i just don't feel used to more "modern" technology
i still use text browsers, use console mode alot when using network services
there should be a gnu based distro which comes with no X-related programs
the gnu site is very lynx friendly
that's why i want to somehow help with the free software foundation..they know that not everyone cares about images when researching..
i like straight up html host and text only pages

blazemonger, well, almost all gnu/linux distros are gnu based

are there any free web based email providers that are lynx friendly?
or is having your own newsgroup the best way
if you dont care about images and wierd scripts like javascript

You could setup your own mailserver…

i'm thinking about buying the patents on everything commodore created and GPL'ing it

You can't GPL a patent.

that way if the internet dies free software will still be around

Can you?
Erm, free software predates the Internet.
By a long, long time.

well i can change the patent to that people have every right the GPL gives
youre right

In fact proprietary software started with the Internet.

computers predate the internet

You can simply campaign for the abolishment of patents. I think they're stupid in every way imaginable.

once the last BBS in town decided to close the fun of the net was no more
yah cuz like a patent on like a mathematical formula is like saying someone OWNS a number

Gotta love the Internet… http://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/16/the-software-awards-scam/
No, I mean patents in general.

technicly software patents are invalid because NO body will ever be able to *OWN* the numbers 1 and 0
utechnicly software patents are invalid because NO body will ever be able to *OWN* the numbers 1 and 0/u

Free market and all that jazz is rhetoric when you allow corporations to simply buy the government off and make it enforce selected monopolies.
And no, software patents are not that simple.

since without the 1 and 0 there would have been no computer to create ANY piece of software
well i trust corporations that aren't married to govt..

You can't patent the atom, but countless things have been patented that are composed of atoms.

if a libertarian society was possible, we wouldn't need the U.N.
walmart has the nmap hacking chair lol lol
imo the internet is no longer a libertarian utopia
like it used to feel before the commercialization of it
and the phrase "information superhighway"

The Internet was never a libertarian utopia to begin with.
Never judge the potential impact of a new technology by the amount of good it can create, but the amount of evil it can be subverted to.

true
it could have been
the internet is still a great educational tool

I watch porn, yes.

and a great way for artists from around the world to collaborate on true art

For research!

i like studying mathematics

Just curious: Wouldn't that just block scientific research completely?

The Internet tries to be logically neutral, but it's unpossible when it's physically concentrated.
What's "that"?
s/concentrated/centralized/

"That" is your statement about how to judge about technologies.

What does this have to do with scientific research?

Dynamite and nuclear energy just came to my mind as you said that…

well we don't want planet earth ending up in a scenario like the film idiocracy where everyone becomes completely dumbed down
and everyone has barcode tatoos

This "research" you speak of is one-fourths real science, three-eights popular opinion and three-fourths political power anyway so it lives on.
The "one-fourth" bit is conservative.
Durr, getting late.

i am going to start a site which has nothing but links to sites that don't use any extra scripting languages , just plain text, or straight html
ones thjat are plain text or easy to navigate and use with a text browser like the one fairlight coded on the conmmodore 64
I'm writing a essy about the psychology of those who either use text mode browsers, and turn every un-necessary option off in their browsers, and those who will use browsers enabled with scripting stuff like flash..im actually glad adobe didn't port their flash to other platforms
at least with software with free licenses, you can at least easier use more text based programs

Well… they did.#

really? they did that?

(At least there's a linux version out there.)

i want a distro with *no* graphical browsers

No problem about that.

i love reading essays that are on university professors personal .edu sites
so much stuff on maths and even programming
i bet if some powers have their way there would be books with commercial advedrtisements
lawyers can be fatal
I like how fravia's site encourages people to actually read essays and other papers.
denna:what would be a alternative to setting up a mail server (question is would it have to be on 24/7?)
how much is a e-mail account on gnu.org or fsf.org

Sorry I don't know. I run my own mailserver. Isn't there any text-based app for fetching email? I don't know whether gnu.org or fsf.org provide mail-accounts.

mm
fravia's literature board is beautiful

Well, dd worked, but "df -ha" still says I have the same size hard drive, which is confusing

hello

Does "updatedb" effect "df -ha"?
Or is there something else I should update?

I'm searching for geek chats
in IRC

too bad you left
I have this awesome geek dating channel to hook you up witht he ladies.
…. with THE ladies. THE ladies.

si
sif

ok… how do I compile a program when I have a makefile.in & makefile.am but make doesn't says there's nothing to do for either?
bok… how do I compile a program when I have a makefile.in & makefile.am but make doesn't says there's nothing to do for either?/b

side by side ? (it has a BR-like effect)

two divs I mean

one float:left; one float:right;
you might also give them a size

ah cool
thanks man

what spacing/gap is there by default in a table cell, ive removed padding, border-spacing and margin, and theres still a gap

the table has a cellspacing and cellpadding attributes that has no "real" css equivalent
afaik

so i cant get rid of the gaps?

border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0;
'sounds' what u want.

gpy didnt make any differencee

what are you trying to do.

get rid of the gaps within the cells, so the input field, and text are tight to the edges, this is the screeny http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8189/screenyyq2.jpg
see what I mean?

this leaves all the styling to css

yea theyre all set
:s

hey guys

AdvoWork then your problem is not about the table
you want the inputs to take all the cell ?

does IE6 prevent modifying the innerHTML inside a table ?
are you aware of such a thing ?

StaZ|work oh :s well, i just dont want the gaps, so basically the cell should be the same size as the input field or text above it, get me?
StaZ|work if its not my table then, what is it?
:s

the inputs, tried setting 100% width?
in fact that's gonna be too big as the width exclude the border
(that is the stupidest thing ever)

solved, IE6 allows you to set the content of a 'div', but not much other things, so some a = new Element('table'), you won't be able to set the innerHTML

so basically you're screwed… no seriously, if your layout is static, give a fixed with to your inputs

so the solution was to wrap my elements into a 'div', then access the children

100% for the inputs :s
so you mean resize them?
class="artwork_request_inputs" and then set that to width: 80px; but its still not made a difference, any ideas StaZ|work?

without an url to check, no

i cant get an url either as its on the internal network
i cant see what else would be causing the padding/gap

hi people. Little question: why is that validators do not accept foreign XML namsespaces on XHTML 1.0 Strict?
see http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mini-pousse.net&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline

What is xmlns:ev or xmlns:xf supposed to be?

AdvoWork try posting relevant code to rafb.net
and a screenshot on imageshack.us

namespaces for XML host events and XForms
the validator properly parse them (see the top of the result page, the namespaces are listed)
I could have set SVG namespace as another example, the problem would be the same.

StaZ|work this is the screeny http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8189/screenyyq2.jpg and heres relevant code: http://rafb.net/p/PeKhkB47.html

your inputs are ~100px wide
if you put more than 80px in there what do you get ?

hi
opacity
I have 1 table with background. Into that table is two another tables. i want to background: transparent & for every td another color
howto
=]
sorry for bad english

StaZ|work how are they 100px wide? as the class is set to 80px

AdvoWork do you have a doctype ?

yea, all thats fine etc

your inputs are ~100px wide how though, or where? its not set as that]

i have no idea
that's why i asked if you had a doctype, that could've been it

the stuff that i put in a girls input is a 400px long
bthe stuff that i put in a girls input is a 400px long/b

if not… heh drop all your css and restart over until you find the problem
or try live edition with firefoxe's webdev toolbar

firebug, u mean.

no
i mean the webdev toolbar plugin
that lets you edit css of a page and see the changes as you type

yes, firebug too.

i don't know, i don't use it

dont know how one could dev wed without using it.
s/wed/web

i don't rely on javascript enough to need a debugger

it does wonderful thing with DOM and CSS related stuff aswell.
to see inhertance = 3
among other

as i said, i don't rely on JS enough to need it

StaZ|work im going to try again with this code, but really cannot see what it could be. could it be the size of the actual text not allowing the cell to be tight to the input field if you get me?

don't think so

i've got one div in which i want to have three divs as columns. how is it possible without the use of a table

using old styling how do you set margins

kind of stuff

i need to set margin on a td

hello
what's the tag to display text exactly as it is written in the html file ?

?

for example the page should display a newline when there is a newline in the file, and i shouldn't type anymore
hmm

yes, its pre

i think that's let, let me see
that's it*
damn :/
yeah, that's it, thanks alot

how can i define a children tag should be high as the parents tag is?

I am trying to find some decent pay-per-click sponsors…any idea where to find some beside google?
- porn

hey.. could someone please have a look at that code: http://pastebin.com/m426020e3 and tell me why the w3c validator gives me the following message: "Error Line 20 column 27: end tag for element "B" which is not open."

works for me
This Page Is Valid html hosting 4.01 Transitional!

whats the default height of a textarea

AdvoWork 2 rows

anyone know of a tool to measure the amt of data transferred for loading a single page (including css sheets / js includes / etc.)?

hi
I need to do page layouts, using a wysiwyg tool, that outputs proper code in css (instead of tables). Any recommendations?
I'm currently using dreamweaver, but it only has a table-based layout feature

hi

WYSIWYGS = the devil's spawn
I don't know of any

is it possible to tell if a user is typing right-to-left text in a textbox? Will it include the appropriate unicode flags?
(the reason I want to know is that I'm working on internationalizing an application, and it would be nice to simply "do the right thing" instead of asking the user)

Make everything UTF-8
database, middle, and html encodings
whatever the user puts in, will come back out the right way

Everything is UTF-8… The problem is that, if I enter stuff in a text box, the code has no way of knowing if that text is left to right… So it can't set the HTML left-to-right tags. Unless the HTML *should* be doing that magically and I've just got my encoding wrong
(content-type header is UTF-8, have a meta tag that says the same things. Running in XHTML 1.0 Strict)
(err, s/left-to-right/right-to-left)

hi
th width="5" align="center"
have an error
line 155 column 13 - Erreur: there is no attribute "width"
???

th style="width:5px" …

ok
thanks
it can generate an anomaly witj IE7?
it can generate an anomaly with IE7?

maybe ill get more css help here than #css

why do tabs not work in HTMl?
i really don't want to use tables, because i dont' think they are very pleasing to the eye

what do you mean by tabs?

Vmen div style="margin-left: 20px;"there's a pseudo tab there/div

i'm putting lots of properly escaped HTML in a value attribute of a textarea element, yet none of it is displayed
like textarea value="<h2>Doelstelling</h2>"
colons and slashes are not esacped, but should not be?

hi people
im making a script for my php class
but im kinda poor on the html hosting layout setting
iv found some table divisor, and the page its displaying just fine
but my header text has gone
can anyone help?

is www.craigslist.org down?

basically i'm looking for an easy way to arrange my data
something pleasing to the ey
eye

Can somebody help me with my site? http://www.topicify.com/adam

what's the problem?
$

The nav bar is screwed up

Failed to reach http://www.topicify.com/adam

how's it screwed up?
$

On my 1280×1024 screen it's fine
but on my iBook with 1024×768

how's it screwed up?

Stats and crew are on a new line under schedule and results

]listamatic @ proct0r2

listamatic: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

;google suckerfish dropdowns

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/

I have a question about the use of image input tags, specifically in nameing them. Is anyone willing to help?

just ask, always just ask
]etiquette

I just wanted to make sure someone was available….such is not always the case….

reisio, what's your opinion about sending XHTML as text/html?

http://dorward.me.uk/irc/ :p
it's silly
and bad for XHTML and the web
and by extension the world :p
(as with most things that are bad)

reisio, I understand, but I'm trying to influence someone else that it shouldn't be used unless for application/xml+html

I want to know if I can use this code inside a single form:
$contacts .= 'td width="5%" align="center" valign="top"input style="noborder" type="image" name="action" src="images/okay.gif" value="Change"/td';

]know xhtml @ Pancakes

Are you using XHTML? READ THIS: http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml , http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml , http://www.webdevout.net/articles/validity-and-well-formedness

tell them Googlebot doesn't understand XHTML

$contacts .= 'td width="5%" align="center" valign="top"input style="noborder" type="image" name="action" src="images/delete.gif" value="Delete"/td';

that'll bring them around quick

GoogleBot?

specifically can both those image host inputs tags have the same name?

the bot Google uses to index your site
or "rank" your site, if that's how you see it

It won't pickup your site if it's xhtml?

no it will, just not as effectively

reisio, okay. Do you have some proof?

probably all those links that _ZofBot3 gave you cover it

"According to wikipedia, the script stuff is the only thing that I should really be at all concerned about" — Is that true?:/

why would you want to give them the same name?
no
there are many issues

I'm sending the form to a Hosting with php support script that will then take action based on the image/button selected. The script will look for the element "action" to determine what path to follow. It's part of a DB maintenance system

]ies4linux % reisio

reisio, such as?

I want to make the line in the form so that the person can either update the data and then press one button to update, or simply press the other button to delete the entire line from the DB

you want me to recite the information in the links the bot gave you?

Just a generalization of the basic things, if you feel up to it

usually one is paid to babysit and read a story

Main*

okay first off
text/html for XHTML is stupid, because XHTML's proper mime-type is application/xhtml+xml
but we can sort of put that aside
if you send it as text/html
you should follow the guidelines in appendix C of the spec
which lists many little things
lots of UAs (browsers, etc.) don't support XHTML as well as HTML
there are all the differences between XHTML and HTML that one has to remember
how's that?

Thanks, reisio.

If it will help I can provide more detail on what the script and form are supposed to do

that would help, but #web is probably a better place to ask

I'll try there then. Thank you for your help

Anyone know any servers with good #flash channels - the one on here is dead.

efnet's is decent

Thanks, I'll try there…
Damn, I have to update this irc client - all the damn efnet servers on here are dead

is there a way to make the page appear scrolled at a certain point
like scrolled down to a certain point when someone visits a page

without using a fragment identifier?

im new to html
could u be more specific
i want the page to automatically scroll down to middle when someone visits it

why don't you just put the content that's in the middle…at the top?

well im using an iframe in one of the pages and i want the video in the iframe to appear in the middle
opposed to the side of it by default
is that even possible
to make the video in the iframe appear in the middle

if it's in an iframe, you can basically crop the contents of an iframe however you like

well the iframe is not my page. it belongs to another site

doesn't matter
look at http://reisio.com/linguistics/
]haslayout % reisio

thanks
cheers

It seems that a comment (!– –) followed by a CR injects a space. Can that be avoided ?

CR, you're so oldskool :p

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.1

the solution depend on where - link

"In particular, user agents should collapse input white space sequences when producing output inter-word space"
that means that all whitespace sequences will usually appear as a single space
so you pretty much have to get rid of the CR

how can I avoid a comment followed by a CR to insert a space in my html page ?

the solution depends on where - link

link is difficult (inside web app - will try to paste code) but is was in a table and the data was  !– comment –CR!– comment2 –CRSome text and there were TWO spaces in the field

two comments in a row?

yes (comment contains debug/trace info)

what's before the  ?

hold in, will post code
see http://pastebin.ca/632613 and check out the alignmet of field near Trajectbegeleider in the section Herstelmelding

what line #?

search For 'Vries, de Eric'
where it appears NOT in a comment
line 1629 - 1633

wtf is this for?: td class='formcelldata': 
foo
it should be [foo:][foo] (tdfoo:/tdtdfoo/td)
not what you've got now
and even that is a little strange in a table

value' and all ': value' fields should be alligned left
formcelldata is just font and alignment info

is it always a pair like that?
two?

yes
below oneanother and not floating after the text label of the value

is there some reason the comment needs to be where it is?

it is generated automatically by the program assembling the data to fill in to the tabel (PHP code). When I enable verbosity on the server, the comments are generated (and I get an extra space) if verbosity is of there are no comments and no space

ah
and you don't want to modify the PHP…
that's what you should do, really
just find where that is in the PHP, and remove the CR(s)
or put them inside the comment, instead of outside

that is impossible (see code) since the tracing basically inserts state of some variables spread all over the program. The debug statements are generated all over the place
Removing the CR would also render the output less readable since all comments will be on one line

then the PHP code is really patheticly badly-coded :p

Perhaps is there a soft CR (like there is a hard space nbsp ?)

just the CR's that aren't inside the comment

How would you insert trace code logging contents of variables then ?

the same way
just without carriage returns after or before the 's or 's

all over the place (difficult to read for a mere human like me(

How can I construct a form with NO action?

action="" ?

fails
it ends up submitting the request to the page itself

why do you want no action?

Because I want the submit button to be onclick="ajax()".

then you don't even need a form element

I realize this I eliminated this.

field, within my JavaScript. Do you know how to do that?

Can I do document.getElementById('formname')?

for input id="formname", sure

er
I want..
doc.gebi('form').value
:P

gebtn('form'), y'mean? :p
or
id="form" ?

for anchor tags
can the onclick property come before the href?
a onclick="blah" href="blah"

Hello.
How is this for a site that was written mostly by hand? http://patriciasweddings.com/

It sucks
It's ugly
It looks like something that was written in 1999
I would never buy a wedding cake from Patricia, given this web site.
Jeez.
At $3.50 a slice, you'd think she could afford a decent designer.

@

don't troll for validation unless you've got something worth validating.

attribute order doesn't matter

thx

(patriciaswedd…) Network error ( http://tinyurl.com/372ep7 ) | CSS: Valid [2 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/3756y4 ) | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1)

is there a reason why a table won't change size??
its killing me trying to manipulate them
it seems the ones i'm having the most trouble with are the tables, within tables

what is it call the part of a html file, where it is described what kind of language I'm using?, I think it is always the first part

have your server send the encoding

reisio nop, actually I dont have a server, I'm just asking

well that's how to specify an encoding
the 'lang' attribute can be used to specify a language
but it doesn't do all that much so far AFAIK

reisio where can i find how to do this encodig heding?

using Apache?

reisio, yes

#apache can tell you

td height="22"

hi
i dont want to hard-code links into each document. how can i avoid that?
links being the menu

includes

is somebody alive
?

hello?
anyone not afk?

there are people who only reply to on-topic questions they know the answer to, so just ask it

hi

anyone here?

You might be best with just asking your question, that way if somebody knows the solution, they can answer :/

its kinda complicated
http://www.ozzu.com/ftopic78756.html
i am OP
the latter posts are more up to date

=]

hi! how can i include a .ppt file in my web page? I know about a web program that allow this but i don't remember the direction.

databird, you might have better luck asking in #CSS
xota, try http://www.google.com/search?q=include+a+.ppt+file+in+my+web+page&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

k ill try thnx
ill stya here in case

ok Pancakes thx
i was searching about a plugin for powerpoint

no ones answering yet, theyre busy helping some other noob O.o

hi people. will like to know…. can web pages response to events? especially this type of events…. e.g barcode scanner scan in a string of characters for the page…. after scan in automatically trigger a form post?

is that possible to disable the auto complete for input type=text ?

Does anyone know how to fix how my page looks in MSIE; it looks correct in Firefox, Safari, Opera etc. https://pc-stop.co.uk/

hi there. has anyone experience using canvas?
i tried using getImageData/putImageData methods, but they seem not to work in Opera and Safari

hello everyone, i am having an issue with a div which is supposed to render below another div. Konqueror and Safari render it the way i want it to, IE6 renders the vertical position correct, but pads the horizontal, firefox renders horiz correctly, not the vertical. The page in question is http://www.dvnull.org/proj/hoodstation.com.new/

hi all, i'm trying to display some russian language on an html page but it's showing up in really odd characters. any pointers?
i'm wondering if it's because of the encoding meta tag I've used - meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" /
ok.. apparently so although it's not all being converted properly

Texas Woman Kills Toddler While Splashing Kids With Car http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290484,00.html
Texas Woman Kills Toddler While Splashing Kids With Car a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290484,00.html"http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290484,00.html/a