Does this mean my harddrive can crash any time now? http://paste.debian.net/34204

no

ok, what does it mean?

it just means it has trouble enabling dma. is this sata?

it's not sata

you see this only at boot or continuously?

"accordingly" meaning? I have specified the desired resolution, however I'm getting a lower one. I have understood that a similar problem exists with some intel chips, but for those, the solution is the installment of a 9??resolution package

I also hear a sound, like it's "restarting" something every 5 minutes or so.
but I thought it came of my video card

jelly-home: As I have got a problem with ACPI since I loaded the DEB program package 'powersaved', I should like to know the answer fairly certainly.

err k then it could be dying

I'm guessing the problem is somewhere in the driver Xorg is using, but I need a clear direction, documentation-wise.

hmm, I will make anohter backup, just in case.

do you have a native SATA power connector, or a molex/sata adaptor

first you need to install the ATI drivers and make sure they are compiled into a new kernel, have you done that?

No.

ok hold on

ah. I can't help you there, apart from the obvious RTFsource.

?

I am not using SATA

ah
run SMART on it
dodgy power cabling

anyone on my apt thing?

a dead PSU
a dead HDD

I just replaced the PSU

jelly-home: What is a 'RTFsource'?

what brand, how many watts?

how do I run SMART on it?

there are 2x ATI drivers for linux, the free linux ones and the Proprietary ones, i believe the linux free ones are better.

450 Watts (Kingsomething)

amanda-client amanda-common bind9 libdigest-md5-perl libdigest-nilsimsa-perl libmime-base64-perl libnet-perl libtime-hires-perl locales netbase pidentd ppp pppconfig pppoe pppoeconf proftpd proftpd-common xinetd

and .. how do I fetch/use either one?

did the problems occur before the new psu?

why?!?!

I'd rather not want to configure the kernel.

not this speciefic problem
specific*

*subx

mmm.. looks like youve found your demon then

read the fine kernel source to see where exactly does the message come from

how do I run SMART on it?

apt-get install smartmon-tools or something

show us the actual command you typed and the actual output, use a pastebin: /msg dpkg pastebin

I honestly suspect the PSU is not at fault.
it could be that something is not connected perfectly.

is there a nice clean way to restor gconf database to it's defaults? i've done some messy schema installations:x

you got the old one still? does it work?

rogue:- apt-get install fglrx-control fglrx-kernel-src module-assistant

s/restor/restore

I'll try, thanks.

rogue:- m-a prepare && m-a a-i fglrx && depmod -a

the old one doesn't work

ah
why so?

that's why there is a new one in it

exploded?

it burned through

rogue- make sure fglrx is in your driver section of your xorg.conf

its possible PSU death caused damage

http://www.pastebin.ca/649706 thx

ok
thanks.

depending on the nature of the death of course

I hate that about hardware (there are a million causes to one problem)

lightning strike = give up

you are upgrading a lot of core packages. what version of debian are you running?

I can't find anything with smart in it.
(anything that's of use)

what i missing under Debian/etch amd64, i can't play mkv files ?

there _should_ be something with smart in it
smartctl

never mind

4.0

I found it

oh, actually a lot of those packages that are going to be newly installer are essential packages that should have never been removed in the first place

i don't want to update so much, i want webalizer to work, that probably only means i need to upgrade libpng
i haven't removed anything

show us the output of " apt-cache policy libc6 coreutils ppp" ; use a pastebin: /msg dpkg pastebin

how can I try to enable DMA again?
hdparm…

http://www.pastebin.ca/649713
don't care about ppp btw

hmm, I only see how to read the information, not how to set DMA

is there a way in which I can force it to update _just_ libpng?

so you are mixing sarge (aka 3.1 aka oldstable) and etch (aka 4.0 aka stable)

hdparm -d1 /dev/hda
like i said, i didn't set it up but it explains issues i had before with simple apt-get install commands

this isn't supported, you need to stick to one or the other. you also don't have 'coreutils' installed, which is crazy, coreutils contains programs like "ls"

well i can honestly say ls works

hi, what is the SCP package called in debian?

do you want to stick to oldstable or upgrade to stable?
openssh-client

it's part of the ssh client

this webserver is going to be decommisioned in a couple of months, so all i really care about is webalizer, either downgrade it back to old version, or update libpng to work
well not correct, all i care about is getting webalizer working w/o affecting the other running services that better describes it

okay. just that I can't transfer any files from win to debian using SCP. winscp says that scp isn't installed
thanks

then you need openssh-server

that is installed as well

edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change all occurances of "stable" or "etch" to "sarge"; then "aptitude update ; aptitude install ~E!~i"
that will hopefully get all of the essential packages that you ar missing installed again, at which point you should "aptitude upgrade" then go back to trying to install whatever you are trying to install
actually since you are missing debconf, you are likely to run into problems. but try first anyway, we might have to install coreutils and debconf by hand if that fails

hi all

k that sounds risky… can i just d/l the libpng package somewhere and extract it or somethin? this server is live

how to share my pc connection with my mobile phone? I've problems with gnubox

hello

you need to have coreutils, debianutils, debconf, ifupdown, e2fsprogs install

could some one help me please?

!tell Blackhold -about ask

I'm looking for a po editor that allows you to use aspell dictionaries

the cache must be corrupt. i'm not familiar with debian, but i am with linux. if coreutils was missing i would have noticed (ls, grep, find, etc all work)

furthermore, this box has been missing the security updates, so not upgrading is also risky

agreed but going to be decommisioned. i wouldn't be surprised if it's hacked already. perhaps my last install messed up webalizer due to the wrong sources (i only did install chkrootkit)

!ndiswrapper

ndiswrapper is, like, a way to wrap Windows drivers so that they can be used on Linux i386 only. If there is a Linux driver for your card, use that instead; if there isn't, email your manufacturer and ask for one (since it's better for everyone involved if there are real drivers), then ask me about "ndiswrapper one-liner" for information on setting up ndiswrapper. If you don't yet own a card, consider buying one that has real secure linux web hosting drivers.

!ndiswrapper one-liner

extra, extra, read all about it, ndiswrapper one-liner is apt-get install build-essential module-assistant && m-a a-i ndiswrapper

What is the usual device for an usb mouse?

… /dev/mice
should have am all

/dev/input/mice

is there a way to figure out which repository provides a package?

err that one yea

apt-cache policy packagename

great, thanks stew.

net-inst doesn't support internal/WLAN cards? how do i know which network card i have?

stuart-: netinst does support internal/wlan cards. are you running linux currently?

stuart-: lspci | grep WLAN, maybe
or just go through lspci

stew, yep. ubuntu. but i want a more customized install, and the last time i tried using net-inst, i couldn't connect to the itnernet

stuart-: show us the output of "lspci -n" ; use a pastebin: /msg dpkg pastebin

stew you know anything about changing ls's colors?

VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6105 [Rhine-III] (rev 86)

i got colors enabled for zsh but i want to customize them

can i use that for netinst?

man dircolors

stuart-: is there a list of supported hardware somewhere

stuart-: i wouldn't know without seeing the output for that card from 'lspci -n'

how can i find out what package contains libssl.pc?

apt-file search

what do errors ACPI interrupt mean, the kernel boots to some stage than hangs…

thanks

… strange shit. all i did was change stable in sarge (in source-list, i have a q on that later), did apt-get install webalizer, it install libdb4.2 and now the segfault / libpng error is gone. also i can't install libpng12-0 cause it's already installed whilst webalizer complained about it being 1.0 something and need 1.2 something
anyways could it be that the 'stable' word used to point to sarge and now points to edge? I only had stable words in source-list, nothing like release names as etch, sarge, woody etc

stew, whoops. didn't see -n. http://pastebin.ca/649725

you also need to install debconf e2fsprogs coreutils debianutils ifupdown
if you don't have, for instance, debianutils, cron won't work, which means webalizer wont work

cron works, it's running that's what so strange. as i said i'm pretty familiar with cli just not with debian. i should have noted coreutils missing long ago as i should use lots of tools in there
also install core utils gives a lot of replacing files :/

what does "which run-parts" return?
if you have reason to suspect that the machine has actually been compromised, you should be doing something about that too
stuart-: yes, that card can be used to netinst, it is supported by the via-rhine module

cast :O how long does apt-file update take to finish?

coreutils shows conflicting files with what package?

/bin/run-parts, i just installed coreutils tho' (only coreutils not the rest)
yea i feel like the machine has been comprised long time ago. i was recently made responsible for it. it hasn't seen updates in like 3-4 years
that's why i installed chkrootkit last time but it was clean

depends on your net speed

that is, chkrootkit didn't detect anything which isn't necessarily clean

i've never had ckrootkit detect a rootkit, even on boxes where i had myself detected a rootkit.

How can I clear the DNS cache?

if the box has been compromised, you need to re-install or decommission it now, until the problem is fixed
you are using ubuntu?

which dns cache?

also we had bills from the hosting company. we're allowed 50G traffic p/m, we would have pulled 75 according to them. however both iptables (no rules, just the chain counters) and apache/webmin/ftp statistics only showed 15G

stew, cool. thanks. what package would i need to get xfce running after i install core? apt-get install xfce4

stuart-: xfce4 and xorg

themill i have a dns server that is caching for another Dns server. The problem is that the master server changed, but my caching server host still thinks the old master is still the master

you can't trust the tools on that box to give you accurate info

especially the iptables counters being wrong worries me

but not enough to actually do anything about it?

stew, cool, thanks.

did the master update the zone serial?

it's live, with 100+ websites i can't just pull em out of the air, they all need to be migrated to our new plesk server which is a tedious task. i'm just the techy management decides on these things but i'm pretty sure they won't shut it down getting it back up costs too much time which they probably rather have spend on the move
You have 2 process hidden for ps command
we're screwed i'll take it up with management

you need to reinstall or decommission the box

themill probably not

thx for the help atleast the statistics work again

what's the diff between the business card iso and minimum cd iso?

if the serial wasn't updated then the update won't propagate. the serial *must* be updated.

please at least consider installing the missing essential packages and the security updates for that box

themill thanks

stuart-: dunno but you have these business web hosting card shaped cd's they probably can contain less data than the 8" variants
i will, if i have time i'll take a copy of the box and do it on there cuz if ftp and such stop they're gonna hang me

freakynl, is there anything i'd need in the bare minimum cd that wouldn't be available in the business card version? would it matter if i'm just gonna net-inst anyways?

stuart-: the business card iso doesn't contain the base system, it only has enough to get you on the internet to download the base system. the netinst cds also contain all of the base packages, so these don't have to be fetched from the internet

stew, oo. okay d/l'ing now. thanks

Hello everyone!

ps part of coreutils?

there would be far less spam and phishing and ssh brute force attacks on the internet if it weren't for lazy admins like you
yes

themill ok even with the new serial nothing seems to have changed

you can also use the named-xfer command by hand to force the update.

i'm sorry, no it is in procps

#make -bash: make: command not found)

perhaps helpful: http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/networking_2ndEd/dns/ch14_03.htm#INDEX-2157.html
!tell MilhousePunkRock about b-e

Thanks.. Do I remember correctly that when I run make clean instead of make, apt-get will notice what I built so I can manage it from there?

themill that's a good list but the problem i'm getting is that the authorative server reported by the caching DNS server is wrong (it reports the old DNS master)

make doesn't talk to apt at all…. not sure what you're trying to do.

There are guest accounts available on svn.debian.org, correct?

hi all

I am working with the debian-perl team yet cannot send my id_dsa.pub key there, how might I do this?

I got a garmin etrex serial connected device
I want to make it work
I installed gps

gnube, you add your key using the webtool on alioth

gpsdriver

Basically I am only trying to install a printer… My memory is somewhat blurry about that, but I think there was a way to create a .deb from source code and install that instead of just compiling it, right?

gnube, basicaly login on alioth and add keys in your profile there

and kismet

gnube, think there is a cronjob. so it wont work right away

Thanks, right.

hi

i understand your concerns, i usually share them. but i have 160 hours of work i need to do in like 40, i am the only guy here that understands linux and i rather take the safe road. if that means the machine will be compromised for another couple of days so be it. it's not that it won't be handled, it'll just take a lil longer. i have concerns other than security alone, like my job and our customers. thanks tho'

ahh. You need to tell bind what the master is in its config file.
http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/networking_2ndEd/dns/ch04_08.htm#INDEX-610.html

hi there
how can i use aptitude to print out a list of all installed packages?

someone knows howto exec commands at the boot time whith no minds of shell scripting?

what's the printer? do you really need to compile things?

Samsung ML-2010

i want to exec cat iptables-restore | iptables-restore

I found splix, which is a clone of Samsung

themill thanks I think i found the problem

s printer language
And the driver needs good ol' make make install

you know those zombie farms that spew all the anti spam filter webmail host out and we normally diss the home windows users for running them? Are you sure your box isn't one of them?

no, he's sure he IS one of them, in fact he said he is knowingly paying the bandwidth overage charges that they are incurring

basically i want a *.bat exec

at this point i'm actually 80% sure it's part of them unfortunately. if i can get the rootkit of fast i will, if i can protect it easily i will. if i risk taking the server out of the air for a couple of days i unfortunately won't

ugh

*sigh*

mornin'

I know — you're between a rock and a hard place. Is it feasible for you to put an extra firewall in front of that box that only lets stuff out from a couple of ports (25, 80)?

hey can i get help here on garmin

stop chatting here and use the time to run the 3 or 4 simple commands i told you to replace the missing and known broken packages and install the missing security updates

changed the sources has made apt-get upgrade a lot more feasible. no packages will be removed (did the stable keyword change) but as you're probably aware of also, just that won't fix it if there's a rootkit, rogue processes etc the upgrade is running

I think you're looking for checkinstall. You can use that to quickly compile host a deb from the source package and then use it. Whether the package actually integrates with cups on debian is an exercise left to the reader….

how do i find files named *boinc* on my computer? i tried reading find manpage.. but it is way too complicated

how do you know it won't fix it if there's a rootkit?

either with find or locate
find / -name \*boinc\*

I think basically the package only provides the .ppd files for various Samsung printers. Basically the printer is known to work fine in Linux in general and Debian in particular…

i've had a machine with a rootkit before, the processes that are already running are not installed by apt nor seen by it and won't be updated/replaced. i might just replace messed up versions of ps that hide the rogue processes making them visible again

if it's only the PPDs then you can just copy them manually into /etc/cups/ppds or use the ppd upload interface through the web interface.

also if a package is compromised (for example ls was overwritten with a version that checks if the rootkit is still installed and reinstalls otherwise) and there's no update for it, you keep the compromised version

if it's also backend drivers, filters etc, then they need to be installed in the right place

and if the rootkit is contained in the files in coreutils, you'd be replacing those as well

I just thought of that myself, there is probably more to it

i'll have a fortigate placed in front of it as well, it has some http/smtp proxies and IPS

you can clean the apt-cache and easily reinstall all the packages
you'll do all that, but you won't run "aptitude upgrade"?!?

that would be reassuring got docs on that

/msg dpkg reinstall

it's running, like i said, changing the sources-list to sarge made it much more feasible it didn't want to remove ftp n such anymore

http://www.falkotimme.com/howtos/checkinstall/ This is what google brought up for checkinstall. My concern is that I want to keep the system clean and have everything I installed manageable with apt.

but don't bother with that until you have installed all the missing essential packages anre run aptitude upgrade

Does not seem like much work, so I might try that

that's why i asked if the 'stable' had change from sarge to etch that would explain the issues

no, it woulnd't

just hope that the rootkit doesn't come in .deb format so that dpkg remembers it if you use that factoid *grin*

it might. he has a system that doesn't have coreutils, debianutils, debconf installed, but all of those packages are seemingly functional anyway

ouch

he's also missing ifupdown and e2fsprogs, so who knows if the box would actually be able to be rebooted

any other ideas? It appears as it was pointing to etch indeed whilst it needs sarge. i change the 'stable' words to 'sarge' in sources-list and apt-get suddenly seems to have no problems

Hello, are there any gramps package maintainers here by chance?

checkinstall makes a deb file so apt will know about it. It's just that apt won't be able to upgrade the package because it's locally built.
you are aware that the splix drivers are in debian already aren't you?

you need to install the missing essential packages by running "aptitude update ; aptitude install '~E!~i' " and upgrade for the security fixes by running "aptitude upgrade"

Right. So when there is an update I will go through the procedure again with the new tarball?

hm, now do I quickly convert unixtime to something readable?

How can I move 500,000 files from one place to another over the network without getting silly failures like Gnome and KDE give?

right

What repo? apt-cache search splix did not find anything?
s/?/!

I thought Gnome and KDE matured a bit, but it seems still silly toys that they don't even get this right.

and "aptitude reinstall procps"

why do you do not compress it
?

upgrade done, installing aptitude, already did a apt-get install –reinstall procps

rxync
rsync

fasta?

I am not sure how long that would take.

are you seeing processes that were hidden before?

they're in main, but they're only in lenny and sid. There might be a backport at backports.org or you might be able to make one yourself trivially.
!tell MilhousePunkRock about backport

0am) … and to answer my own question, perl -e 'print scalar

no, chkrootkit doesn't report them anymore either. aptitude upgrade doesn't install anyting, is it equal to apt-get upgrade?

so what were the two hidden processes?

dunno perhaps it was nothing (could be that check 1 found 2 processes that didn't live anymore at the time of check 2)

you can also just tar them up without compression, push them over an ssh link and decompress on the fly with no temp files involved if you want. But rsync is more failure-resistant

yes, its similar to aptitude upgrade. can you show me the output of "apt-cache policy libc6 coreutils debianutils e2fsprogs" ?
err similar to 'apt-get upgrade'

one minor complication is that I don't want to select some files.
doing that via the command line is inconvenient now.

Great, thanks! I'll come back when I run into problems with the backport

I was looking at the failure called file-roller. I will now try ark

tar and rsync have a very rich exclude syntax. you can even put the exclude filenames into a file and use that.

Oh, one more thing. Can the mirror for the backport be replaced with some other mirror closer to my location?

up2date now thx http://www.pastebin.ca/649756

it's quite unfortunate that the only good programs are command line only.

plz anybody kno how to assign UUID to partitions

yes. there is a list of mirrors http://www.backports.org/debian/README.mirrors.html but you might want to double check that they have what you want on them.
dar is supposed to be good too.

ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid

no you aren't up to date yet, as can be seen by e2fsprogs candidate being newer than what is installed

thing is that i repartitioned one of my hardisk using SuSE 10.2, when i came to ubuntu, i m not getting its UUID

in the fstab

sup?

hello

(I am not new to reading man pages etc. it's just that finding and understanding all the syntactic details for every tool leaves no space to do useful stuff. If everything was a complete interactive environment, using the same syntax, there wouldn't be such a problem)

you also don't have a security.debian.org source. you should have "deb http://security.debian.org/ sarge/updates main" in your sources.list ; add that, then "aptitude update ; aptitude upgrade"

reinstalling 8 packages

thanks MilhousePunkRock, i will try it

i would have sworn i saw a security line hold on

yep… I know what you mean. You get to know a certain set of tools that you use all the time…

hi

I've thrown that size file list at ark before and it survived so it should work out for you if that's how you want to go about it. Sometimes copying the entire lot to a local dir and then deleting the ones you don't want then sending the whole lot is easier than trying to exclude.

can somebody tell me why there is no /sbin/checkproc in debian etch? or is there a replacement?

i have this one (didn't change this line) deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free
should i make it sarge/updates?

so far, ark is still working

also how does it determine whether stable should be edge, sarge, woody etc?

yes, i'm suprised that one didn't cause you problems

confidential

isn't checkproc a suse utility? can you tell us what it does? if we don't have it we probably don't know what it does

Can anybody shed some light on why apache2 processes my php files after I installed the libapache2-mod-php5 but it does not do the same for perl files after installing the libapache2-mod-perl2 package?
I realise the solution is to add an addhandler directive, i'm just curious as to why php webhosting works out of the box but perl doesnt

oh didn't know it's a suse tool, it's on all our older debian machines so I assumed it's a standard tool. it checks if a binary is already running.

if a system service or just any old program?

* * * * * root /sbin/checkproc /etc/scripts/nsrefresh || /etc/scripts/nsrefresh
just a program

I am stuck already… Firstly it's missing a public key, and secondly there is no .dsc file

so how does it determine where stable points to (atleast, i assume it's a symlink or whatever pointing to the correct version)

yes, its a symlink that is changed when a new version of debian is released. people should pretty much never point to "stable" as it causes problems when the link changes, which is why newer installers don't use it anymore

what do you usually use on debian instead?

lsof would be one approach. kill -0 might be another. Perhaps ask again how one could achieve what you are trying to achieve rather than asking about checkproc.
hang on…. what are you trying to do?

edge

thanks, I'll have a look at lsof and kill -0 first

Nevermind, I forgot to append the version number. I'll ignore the missing key for the moment

another 66 updates

generally it's done form a config file — i.e. if it's supposed to be running then it will be
are you pulling the package from backports? or from sid?

it didn't cause the problems that you were missing 5 essential packages

Backports, following this howto: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-package.en.html#s-port

If you are pulling from backports.org then you don't need to do anything other than install it using apt.

strangely they seemed installed tho'. the guy that installed it had some debian image + some scripts he used to install perhaps he installed the tools manually w/o a package or something

and it didn't seem like installing packages from a 'stable' that was too new was the problem, since your install wasn't even up to date with 'oldstable' yet

installing spca5xx sources would make the file /dev/video?

if you are making a backport then you need to follow that howto

how to make the /dev/video so that i can use my inbuilt webcam in laptop?

yeah, 'the guy' is probably, 'the skript kiddie'

well what surprises me was that i had a webalizer that pointed to a newer libpng than i had. when we fixed the sources-list and reinstalled webalizer (well installed, it didn't reinstall webalizer, in installed db4.2 or something) suddenly libpng was a higher version. perhaps the segfault generated the wrong error msg

hey friends. what do i do to give a user permission to rw the /var/www?

you might consider doing something like installing snoopy, and watching /var/log/auth.log to see what commands are getting executing by local users

ahh ok… so a backport doesn't already exist on backports.org. and you're making one yourself.

Uhm, probably I just followed the wrong link… Will try the instructions on backports.org now

no you're doing ok. there is no splix on backports.org

l

thx that might be useful. we suspect the hosting company to generate income (like saying we pull too much bandwidth) and they still have the root account (i use another user account but with uid 0)

So I need to port the package myself? How do I deal with unmet dependancies then?

!dpkg km

apt-get build-dep splix should do it for you.

anyways thanks a bunch everything seems to be working

Being too impatient once again. I will start over now with proper reading (it says "inspect required packages and install them too" but I overlooked that)
But to do things properly, how do I obtain the gpg key for testing and unstable?

If you have debian-archive-keyring installed and you aptitude update then it should be all ok
bIf you have debian-archive-keyring installed and you aptitude update then it should be all ok/b

hi gnudists

…
&
greetings FSFerGnudmanfulguy!

The GNU Hackers Meeting was celebrated a week ago. A GNU-sheriff with permissions could remove it from the channel topic

just call it an "operator"…at least that's accurate :p

who cares?

…jesus
XD

does diftiff support jbig2 compression/decompression?

I have never used diftiff

nor me

….use bz2 or gzip for compression/decompresion!
gzip for speed, bz2 for maximum comression smallness!

i need to encode/decode data with the JBIG2 specs

I don't know JBIG2 at all x.x

libtiff seems to support JBIG, but not JBIG2

In the words of Metalica "And it's time I disappear"

In which form do I need to publish licenses for flex (FLEX) / yacc(GPL2) if i use code generated by those tools?

SFD site is down! o_0

:?
what is SFD
?

Software Freedom Day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Day

ah

ÿ
oops

Hi

Sso….
Question!
Is OpenTTD partially free software? because it requires proprietary graphical files…

AFAIK they are working on free graphics and sounds.

Yes, but right now…?
I want to use Free Software

The code is free, but data files isn't. I don't know how it goes philosphically. In practice it isn't completely free.

Yeah
but they are working on free graphics and sounds, so I think I will wait for a while for any progress.

You may consider running non-free code wrong, but do you consider viewing non-free graphics wrong. Most images on the web are not free…
….and you probably still use free web browser.

Yeah
well, er, not reallys
firefox is not free

It's not free because it included non-free talk-back software.

"included"?
what changed?

Sorry, wrong wording
Nothing changed

ah ok
so, i was thinking of doing up two things, one "depending" on the other. some XML file format for packaging, and some program using it
packaging is hard, and it is made even harder with all the profileration of packaging formats out there
and then the program… it will be a frontend to qemu, and i have ideas for it that will make users go in a crazy frenzy.
the only reason i want to use this abstract XML host file format for packaging is because I don't want to be the packager for my program, and I want to help those packagers

I don't understand. You want use a package format for your program, but don't want to be a packager?
Generally it is a good idea to let distros to do the packaging. You can help those best by making your package easy to "install" to a temporary dir e.g. with "make DESTDIR=/tmp/pkg install".

is there a decent string tokenizer that permits regular expressions in c?
holly farfignugin.. i didn't realize glb has regex functions… yes!
*glib

re

i need some help using automake to compile a lex/yacc parser, haven't found any reasonable axplaination elsewhere. How do i control what the name of the defination header should be? and how do i pass extra arguments to the yacc or lex parser?

hi.

with "definition header" you mean config.h?

moral question, not that i will violate the law or anything:

no, the yy.tab.h generated by yacc

ah

if i sell free software, why should i
er
not done

have you readed the yacc/bison manual?
as long as i remember, you can specify the header file name through a command line option

if i sell free software, why should i tell my customers that this is free? again, MORAL question, pls answer in a moral way

yes, but how do i make automake pass that argument?

So that your customers recognise the freedom that using free software gives them, so then they learn to value that freedom and to hang onto it.

pass to…?

the yacc or lex parser
to the 'executed command'

are you using a custom rule in your Makefile.am in order to launch yacc?
or there is some implicit primary in Automake to handle yacc parsers?

no, i was hoping automake had a better sollution
to realise when the reciever can build yacc/lex and then do it or simply use pregenerated source files

if there is a primary for yacc files in automake, it should be documented in the manual

what are some project management tips?

yes, automake support yacc and lex primaries
AM_YFLAGS
you can put arguments to yacc in the AM_YFLAGS variable

http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Yacc-and-Lex.html

BUILT_SOURCES = parser.h
AM_YFLAGS = -d
bin_PROGRAMS = foo
foo_SOURCES = … parser.y …
yes, that is the section 8.8 of the automake manual

how do i set the AM_YFLAGS?

AM_YFLAGS = -foo -bar ?

P

np

im completely retarded with automake

hello

Hi, I am building a base-system that loads shared libraries using dlopen. The libraries are compiled with -fPIC and -ggdb and linked with -shared. When I debug using gdb and step into the shared library, it do not get any symbols and have no backtrace are locals available. When I type "info
local" I get No symbol table info available. Any suggestions what I am doing wrong here? Thanks!

hello
has anyone happened to need to check that a locale-string such as (es_ES), let's say I'm not interested in codesets or modifiers, is acutally valid?
by looking at setlocale and /usr/bin/locale source code, it seems one isn't able to to this, since nor locale.h or localeinfo.h provide of this
any clues?

I have a question that might be slightly OT (it's about trademarks)

anyone familiar with pcre?

basically our project (a point of sale system) is looking to change its name, one of the suggestions was POSeidon, however there's two proprietary programs that use that name, one is a UML editor another is a media converter, I think the arbitrary nature of the word and the difference in the
types of programs means it's alright but I was wondering if anyone more familiar with trademark law knew any more?

problem is that the result of trademark disuptes is hard to predict
and larger companies usually have legal departments who are doing nothing else but looking for someone to sue
even if you are in the right, it's costly and risky to go to court; so usually free projects just yield immediately
(though if you *do* have the money to fight it out, it's a nice PR gag… )

antrik, ok, I know the project we forked from had to change it's name due to a trademark dispute so I'm a little cautious
too bad though, POSeidon was a fairly popular choice

Hey,
I've got a question about the GPL and LGPL license, I've created a PHP framework that is currently under the GPL 2.0 license, however I am considering moving it to the LGPL 2.1 license. Previously with the GPL license this would mean that anyone who uses my Framework (or parts of it) would also
have to release their code under the GPL 2 license, correct?
but if the libraries and entire framework is under the LGPL license, the code they develop (using my framework/libraries) can be under any license they wish (that is LGPL compatible) - have I got this right?

Yes. Still, if they modify the framework itself, those modifications must be under LGPL.

oh yeah of course, but it is best for me to move it to LGPL?

Depends on what you want. If you want to allow proprietary things to be developed on top of your framework, then LGPL is good.

ok thanks

At my high school, currently the computer lab consists of about 30 Windows computers, plus 8 more in the Library area.
There are some empty desks where computers that had worked no longer work and have thus been removed.
Before this next school year, I'm going to assemble a proposal to put GNU/Linux computers, donated by either myself or the Computer Club at the school (who have computers just sitting around), in those empty desks, so that people will have the option of using non-windows computers if they
want.
I think the only way I'd be able to convince them it's okay is if I use Ubuntu, though I'm going to try for Debian with only free repos
What's cool is that people who had never before used Linux might sit down just to see what it's like and see that it's not as difficult as they think, and in fact has somewhat better software options.
The only problem I think will be getting them configured for the network the way the sysadmin will want it, since our school is pretty much run on Windows Server 2003.
I'd rather they just have a "student" login that stays always logged in, especially since I'm not sure if secure linux web hosting computers could log into a Windows server as a Windows computer.
Anyway.
Just thought I'd share my plans.

and the Structure Of ACPI
s/n//
err. s/ni/n/
on what channel do they have knowledge of such a beast?
should I stamp an eventual hardware design with a GNU head?
still stuck with the moose I guess lol
AUM SHIVA

make[3]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
anyone mind helping me with that one?
i added noinst_LIBRARIES in my lib dir
gave it the sources in that dir
and SUBDIRS the rest
and in all of those, i just added more sources and subdirs
anything unusual there?

Try pastebinning your Makefile.am (or relevant portion)

alrighty
http://pastebin.ca/649208
is whats in my lib dir
and heres one for a subdir for it http://pastebin.ca/649211

Does it give the error when trying to build in the subdir?

just dies after trying to make in lib
all the output, if this helps - http://pastebin.ca/649213

OK, I have to admit that I don't know why.

does it matter if im not using it yet?
or if that library stuff isnt in the "head" Makefile.am?

What looks suspicious to me is using libtreefs_a_SOURCES in a subdirectory. AFAIK you can use it only in the same Makefile.am in which you set noinst_LIBRARIES = libtreefs.a.
No, that shouldn't matter. If it recurses into a dir, then it tries to build.

hmmm
so all the source files for a lib have to be in one dir?
sounds kinda annoying
no way around that?

is there a way in gdb to print all variable values in the current frame the same way that bt full prints variable values in all frames?

Build a library in each directory, then link them together as the final step into a bigger library.

well thats a giant pain in the ass alright
hmmm

I may remember wrong, but recent automake may support files from subdirs. That may be a bit annoying too: libfoo_a_SOURCES = sub/foo.c sub/bar.c …

nothing else?!

I'm no automake expert, so I may have missed a lot. But I don't know any better way.
I'm no automake expert, so I may have missed a lot. But I don't know any better way.

yeah, im curious about CMake now too…

I read that kdelibs built 40% faster with it.

damn

That's because libtool is a shell script, which tends to be slow to execute.

wouldn't an interpreted language like perl be much faster if you made some smarter dynamic / alive compilation?
"static" binaries can't possibly be the optimal way to control your CPU
CPU/Hardware
and why the fuck do my name have to be on every line im my sequence?
some old-school tradition I guess

night

cute so, lol

i asked this before, but still wondering….is it possible to have a (convenience) lib with sources in multiple folders?
(with automake)
still not thrilled about the mini-lib idea…
hate todo this so quickly, but i see new people and im realy curious
i asked this before, but still wondering….is it possible to have a (convenience) lib with sources in multiple folders?
(with automake)

It's certainly possible to have sources in seperate directories.
but I'm not sure if that's exactly what you want. Perhaps you can rephrase your question.

i tried making a seperate lib, and during compiling i keep getting "make[3]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
"
someone one was nice enough to look at it before…only thing they noticed that was odd was that i had sources split up
maybe i should paste it again…
heres the makefile.am for my lib dir - http://pastebin.ca/649378
i have a couple of sources files listed, then SUBDIRS
sane/correct?

It looks plausible.
But I would recommend using the non-recursive approach instead of SUBDIRS

didnt know there was a different option
hmmm
anychance you remember that keyword?
/command

There is no keyword. Just use the full pathnames, replacing "/" with "_" throughout.

dam, thats annoying too…

sed is your friend

…anychance theres a third option

There's lots of options.

if im going to break out ll the text utils i mid as well skip all the autotools madness lol…
and if it assemble one massive line for me…

You can do that, if you don't mind waiting 30 minutes to recompile everything whenever you make even a minor change.

hmmm

yo

gotta be another way to get around this

can I use GPL v2 code in a project that's copyrighted gpl v2 and later?
erm

Like I said. There are dozens of ways.

s/copyrighted/licensed under/

jmd yeah, i heard ya. just not sure what another way is yet
id kinda like to keep doing it like this
pretty easy and handle
but not sure what else is close to that..

A project can't be licensed GPLv2 AND later. It can only be licensed GPLv2 OR later.

but your answer is no

But the answer to the question I think he meant to ask is yes.

actually, it isn't

… the result has to be licensed GPL v2.
So why is there a problem?

ok, sorry, it's licensed under gplv2 or later

"gpl v2 or later" is effectively giving the right to relicense the code under a different, possibly incompatible license
only the copyright holder of such code is allowed to do such a thing

Yes. It gives you that right. But it doesn't compell you to do so.

yup

If I receive software under "GPL2 or later" then I can opt to choose GPL2. I don't have to use the "or later" bit.

except that if some of that code was gpl v2 *only*, then you're creating a license incompatibility
replace "or later" with "or (arbitrary free software license)", and that illustrates the problem more clearly

Where's the incompatibility?

maybe it's more a practical problem than anything, linking against a "gpl v2 only" library would be okay, because there's no room for confusion
if you say "my entire program is gpl v2 or later" when there's a source file which is "gpl v2 only", that could give the wrong idea about how parts of that were licensed

True.

if it's well-integrated into your codebase, then you're effectively saying that you can relicense "gpl v2 only" guy's code without his permission

You would have to make your program v2 only, or say "v2 or later except file x which is v2 only"

correct
if there's a clean separation between the bits of code, then there's not much of a problem with that
even if it linked against a "v2 only" library, you'd probably have to point that out, lest someone make a "gpl v3 only" version of your code and link against that same library, not realising there's a license incompatibility
*shrug*

The way that GNU programs deal with this is to put the bits with the "v2 only" license in a seperate directory, and have a README file there.
See http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#External-Libraries

makes sense

I'm curious about how non-gnu project software is copyrighted by the FSF (2001-2006).
Though gthumb is part of Gnome (a GNU Project), it is not GNU software.
Does FSF take on copyrights for applications without integrating them into GNU?

I don't know. Ask an FSF staff member.
The status of Gnome is wierd anyway.

johnsu01?

Gnome is a "Gnu project", but is (in general) not FSF copyrighted, doesn't follow GNU coding standards, and their website contradicts almost every policy of both GNU and FSF.

some of those are worth contradicting
texinfo, anyone?

do they still produce 680×0 processors?
since I want to web design my own low cost computing kit

sometimes, but rarely

something that's more open than pc's

I'm sure they do. but Motorola and "low cost" don't fit in the same sentence.

i've cant find specs to all of the stuffr on my motherboard is a d865 perl but gnu linux does

Is gthumb one of those? I notice it's not in the maintainers file, but is copyrighted FSF solely.

well i just want to develop a low cost hobbyist platform, and start a bbs network

hm, is it in copyright.list?

thing is i would need a idea for a graphics chip capable of at least 256 colors..

Let me look…

or the info in the directory should be correct

since i believe in 4 years the net as we know it will be dead

it will?

and with all of the people who are hobbyists will start using bbs's again

The directory doesn't list it.

and getting into packet radio
and we can go back to the days of qlink but a gnu version of qlink

I don't see it in the copyright.list file, either.

i want to learn some more electronics skills that way i can design my own computing platform for my own use ..and share the design

hm, we'd have to ask assign@ then.. to check the files
strange that it's not in copyright.list though. unless it's part of some larger package with a different name?

and use it mostly for coding my own stuff since i dont like PC land since everything feels 'spoonfed" and true code just isn't encouraged now days

I don't see anything about that on the gThumb website.

the reason for the motorola 68000 or 68020 chipset is the architecture and ease of codingi n assembly
if i developed a free open computing platform could I have it GPL'ed?

I agree that 68k is (was) a fine chip. It's a shame it was so expensive.

since i see that there are those who are working on releasing open hardware platforms

I've seen some of these before. One example is cvs.

You can't GPL hardware.

man at least i could design the first one myself and we could use magazines and use postal mail
why can't i gpl hardware?

because you can't copyright hardware.

sorry, some of what?

well i'm wanting to come up with a hardware license that's open

What do you mean "hardware license"? That doesn't make sense.

ignore these pedants ;P

Applications with FSF copyright but no current connection with GNU. I don't remember the name of the other offhand.

you can GPL hardware designs

Wrong. You can copyright a diagram but not the design.

the reason i chose the 680×0 is because i can write 680×0 code blindfolded
the hard part would be designing a graphics chipset

If hardware could be covered by something, it would be covered by a patent, not copyright.

and a audio chipset

In some countries there are such things as "registered designs"

oh, yeah, there are definitely some.

i love the gnu/fsf philosophy but i am at the moment trying to learn the x86 architecture first

I was curious. I was looking at the gthumb copyright, but noticed it wasn't in the directory. That's all.

and other architectures sincer i want to become a assembly master

would you ask assign@ about it? I'm curious why it's not in copyright.list.

Sure.

i'm downloading GNU/Hurd right now for playing with since i want something that is guaranteed free

syllable

linux is becoming too mainstream as a kernel

I tend to agree.

that's why i loved amigas they weren't totally mainstream or totally hobbyist like
i want to develop a hobbyist system

and almost anything you do with Linux these days has to be through a loadable module, which means you have to be root, and risk crashing the kernel.

so therefore i'm testing ot different OS's
is there a 680×0 simulator for GNU Linux or GNU /Hurd
another thing is HURD is guaranteed to NOT have proprietary drivers
what other gnu kernels are there besides hurd?

gpled ones?
syllable is all-gpl

The only official GNU kernel is the Hurd on GNU Mach. However, l4 has been used instead of Mach, and of course Linux is used most commonly. I've heard of Debian using the various BSD kernels.

i love the BSD kernel
the linux kernel has become too..big
so we do need alternatives to the linux kernel

One might suggest that OpenBSD's kernel is the only unencumbered kernel around (i.e. no blobs). However, though OpenBSD's kernel is probably programmed better, Linux provides the most flexibility, usability, and security options.

the one thing about netBSD is it's kernel is able to be compiled for the 680×0 processors
PC's have become overly complicated..i miss the days of writing 680×0 code
the Unix Amiga Emulator is GPL code it says on the site but not many distros include it
is it because of the requirement of a proprietary kickstart rom from a existing amiga?
maybe i could work with the AROS team and see if they'd be interested
since AROS does look neat
actually i think free software has won already

Hurd is encumbered ?

Sorry: excepting the Hurd.

does gnu support those who are stuck on non-free OS's who use GPL'ed software when possible ?
since using GPL/other free licensed software is a start

I suppose it depends what you mean by "support".
Many GNU packages certainly run on proprietary OSes

Support in what way? Support their use of free software? Sure, though there is no policy requiring it. It is better to use some free software than none at all, but is best to use nothing but free software.

true
i agre with that
the ONLY reason i have ubuntu installed is because it has the unix amiga emulator in the repositories
how do i create a distribution?

I personally can say I've been using free software exclusively since 1999.

i've been using free software on mky amiga since day one

Have you tried gNewSense? They've done a fantastic job to make it Ubuntu and Debian familiar, as well as a haven for GNU supporters.

gnewsense doesnt come with the UAE

United Arab Emirates?

nope
the unix amiga emulator

Regarding creating a distribution, that's a bit of a daunting task, especially when you get to the compiler toolkit. You're best using a build system to automate things.

which actually rocks

Have you tried one of the other distros listed at www.gnu.org/links?

i've been looking through hobbyist made OS projects and i've seen some interesting ones
i tried musix which works which i use

does gNewSense carry the GNU packages that debian refuses to?

gnewsense messes up my laptoop screen

musix is nice.

when i update
musix and dyne are the ones i had zero trouble withy

I'm not sure which one's Debian refuses to, but they seem to have a healthy selection.

I was particularly refering to the documentation.

they being gNewSense.

but i want something i can work with until i ca afford a free architecutre or until i build my own 680×0 based computing kit

I would like to try Ututo, but I don't speak spanish. What I would really like is a Ututo like distro (FS version of Gentoo) since Gentoo is what I use

i'm seriously thinking about buying another Amiga
sionce PC x86 is starting to annoy me

gNewSense appears to include the typical info files from the source distributions.
s/distributions/packages/

hmph… while you guys are up.. what's a good (real)free(as in freedom) cross-platform networking library to use these days for C++? (preferably not too low level)

how much ritalin do i need to learn x86 code?

rms had asked me to help with UTUTO when they first started, but I couldn't communicate with them very well. There definately is a communcation barrier.

Yes. It seems very orientated towards latin america.

ya it sucks, because it looks like a distro that could be really awsome.

Blag is an alternative…
but not based on gentoo tho

well i downloaded blag installed it to iso but when i booted it it said i needed a blag cd

How Free is gentoo ?

so musix and dyne are the only ones that worked for me

thats my problem, I have become so in love with Portage that I simply get too frustrated trying to use some other package management system.

I ran it for a bit. It is good, but Gentoo was never my thing.

i like the installation of FreeBSD though

gentoo is better when you have a compiler farm/cluster available

and NetBSD

Gothic[c]: Blag is what I use these days.

me too

one of these days, when I get the time and knowlege, I'm going to make a fork of Gentoo and call it Freetoo

Gentoo is free completely, or enough to be on the GNU links page. I don't know what the blob status is, though. gNewSense is the only one that seems to have focused on a completely unfettered system.

maybe i could use Free or NetBSD

bah, last time I emailed RMS he had issues with Gentoo (for some unknown reason).

i like NetBSD due to it's miniature size
I am neutrakl on trusted computing..whenever there's something like that which pops along there's always a market for those who will sell alternatives

I'm sure if he said there were "issues" he would have explained what they were (albeir briefly).

If you're going to use BSD, use Open. At least it's completely free software. I have 4.0 and 4.1 CDs on my website without any non-free software, (though I haven't cleared the ports package. Even though it is entirely free, it has the potential to download non-free software if you're not
careful. I'm still working on this.)

well the conversation wasn't really about Gentoo, it was about a video interview, for a learning GNU/Linux project and he had issues with using Gentoo as the distribution, but never mentioned why.

rms ran UTUTO-e for a bit. I noticed he suddenly dropped it once gNewSense came around. (I am much more comfortable in gNewSense than in Gentoo.)

i just want a kernel to start with for a 68000 based computing platform i want to design

I don't see a link to gentoo on the links page. It's only mentioned in passing …

Last I checked, there was a version of OpenBSD for 68000.

gNewSense seems like a great distribution, but I don't like apt. Portage is like crack.

UTUTO-e is the Gentoo distro mentioned on the GNU webpage.

interesint
however the kernel doesn't have to have support for netqwork cards

What's Tannenbaum doing with Minux these days?

Heh. I don't mind apt, but being a Red Hat guy (s/Red Hat/Blag/) I never really got into Debian/Ubuntu.

portage is beautiful. but it is hell compiling an entire system on a slower machine

since the platform i'm developing will be sinmilar to the amigas and ataris

Have you looked at http://aros.sourceforge.net/

Red Hat was my first distro (4.2), and when the BSDs wore thin, it is what I returned to in the end.

yes i have
aros is what i'm more tan likely going to use

So far as I'm aware, there's no fully Free OS that makes a laptop completely functional.

AROS has ALOT of potential
musix made my laptop fully functional

ya, RH was my first disto (6 something) and everytime I installed something I ended up going to source because I couldn't figure out the silly rpm depends. Later I tried Fedora and could not manage to make anything work.

then again its a old dell p4 1.4 ghz

My laptop is completely functional with gNewSense.

my first OS was Amiga Workbench

prolly simply a lack of knowledge of my part, but when I went to Gentoo.. things 'just worked'

Including Wireless networking ?

rpm hell has been resolved with up2date/Yum.
my first OS was whatever shipped with the Atari 400.

I will have to give Blag a shot on a laptop I have.

nice sinuhe
i'm going to give blag one morfe chjance

Yes, including Wireless. My own particular card required a kernel rebuild and a free software source package, but it worked. With Blag, I use the same software, but in rpm form.

blag seems to be too politicaql and i hate politics
is it possible to replace grub with grub2 or a boot loader of my own choice?

I have been quite impressed with Blag. They have been quite friendly with new users, open to my suggestions around software packages (though I usually have to build them myself and hand them over), and I can use it with my classes to demonstrate Fedora.

Hmm. I looked very hard, but there was only one laptop that was offered ANYWHERE that I could buy, without being compelled also to buy a copy of Windoze. When I got it, the WiFi didn't work without a binary blob.

or i want to use the XOSL boot loader

yes, based on there site. One thing I hate about the GNU/Linux community is when we try to out do windows. Personally I think we spend way to much time trying to compete with MS than we do developing our own stuff. Everytime I hear about 'GNU/Linux on the Desktop' I want to throw up

GNU+Linux distros try to be LIKE windows

possible? Of course. A good idea? Only if you didn't need to ask.

that's why i like MuSiX

amen!

it doesnt try to outdo anything it's origional

I find that the Thinkpads work the best for me, though I've had success with Toshiba in the past.

if we had all the windows fanboi's converting to *nix, we'd be stuck with that crowd,… no thanks

There's noone in Australia that will sell a Toshiba without Windows.

I was impressed with musix, but am not that big on KDE. (I have nothing against it: no flame wars intended.)

musix actually had what i wanted to use my laptop for mainly..midi sequencing

that's because the oem's get discounts by microsoft to sell their OS with the hardware. If they don't ship windows they'd lose their discounts.

I know. My toshibas have always been hand me downs. There's still a XP license sticker on the bottom, but I've never run Windows on it.

i have a desktop too which has musix installed i have musix, dyne:bolic, ubuntu and this modification of centos/fedora core
(thats on my desktop and i goping to use the rest of my drive space for a small os like FreeBSD or something like that or NetBSD

Unfortunately, I have as yet to add a link to a hardware distributor that is entirely free. I would love to do so, but in the 4-5 years I've been with GNU, I've never seen it happen.

I looked at the 2nd hand option, but in fact all the 2nd hand ads I saw also offered windoze.

i hhave only second hand hardware

When I say second hand, I mean I took a used laptop off a friend or family member who bought another.

stuff that's been donated

I reasoned that the vendor was likely to use the money I paid him to buy a new laptop including win XP, so I'd be just as culpable as if I'd bought it direct.

I'd never buy a laptop that I didn't know where its been. My current one is my wife's old laptop that she took through the Iraq war. It has overheating issues, so I'm planning to replace it. Go figure.

I don't know if it's still possible to buy a laptop and claim the $100 back if you don'
t use the OS.

I'm not aware of a laptop vendor that sells laptops without an OS. My current server I bought with OpenBSD installed to it, without any non-free software. I was quite pleased.
In theory, but I think those days are gone. Your best bet is to find someone local that sells brandless laptops and see if they'd be willing to sell it to you without an OS.

Desktops and servers without OSes are easy to come by. But laptops are another matter.

At the office, we all go gah gah over the thinkpads.

I looked. There's only one "brandless" laptop and that's the one whose WiFi requires a blob.
…. and the most annoying thing is that there's no way of knowing until you've bought the damn thing.
So do thinkpads come without an OS?

Amigas were used in various NASA laboratories to keep track of multiple low orbiting satellites, and were still used up to 2003/04
i want a system i dont care what platform it is that has ALL of the hardware specs

I have no solution regarding buying a laptop with Windows. It's an old issue. I've owned four laptops so far, and every one of them I swiped Windows from it (and in one case, helped a friend remove MacOS9 from a G3).

for develoment of low level code and development of addon hardware

I never install the proprietary software that I get, nor do I open the CDs if they have a license sticker (warning me that breaking the seal means agreeing to the license).

I went to the doctor a couple of months back, and there in the waiting room was a PDP11

I break the disks and toss them where they belong. I've tried the reimbursement routine, but never get anywhere.

But some laptops come in sealed bags with such sticker.

It would be nice, though. If the FSF were willing to help me with reimbursements, I'd donate it to them.
I've never received a laptop that way.

I noticed that the EULA for Windows XP says "if you don't agree ….. return it to the place of purchase for a refund … IF APPLICABLE". I don't know what "if applicable" means.

Microsoft doesn't take responsibility for it. That responsibility rests with the OEMs, since they buy the licenses in bulk.
How many Windows licenses are sold to people that never use them? I imagine it is quite large. For instance, H&R Block has a bulk license for their Windows installs, but they buy their hardware from HP with Windows Home. That's 10-20 licenses per store unused and here in Salt Lake, there's 54
stores.

config.status: creating Makefile
config.status: error: cannot find input file: Makefile.in
….autotools were ment to be used by people huh?
*werent
is there some magic trick?
gui everyone uses?
theres gotta be a catch here….

is knoppix free?

i doubht
doubt even

autotools are one of the few mystical beasts of GNU that I still have no idea how to tame.

good, i thought i was alone for awhile

they aren't too bad when you get into it… they grow on you

its about to grow my foot up its ass…

heh

is there away to append files to SOURCES
like code in another dir

Yes. The same as you'd append to any other variable.
use +=

sweet…that might do the trick here
libtreefs_a_SOURCES must be set with `=' before using `+='
it recurses backwards!

In general I'd agree that autotools are overdue for a major rewrite (do them in guile), but if you follow the rules, read the fscking manual and be a little patient, then it usually works fine.
bIn general I'd agree that autotools are overdue for a major rewrite (do them in guile), but if you follow the rules, read the fscking manual and be a little patient, then it usually works fine./b

uggg, not even sure howto go about fixing that error
there more than one sub dir
with my luck itll randomly pick one to start with
so ill never get the = right

You're still using the SUBDIRS thing!

yeah
i reaaaly dont want to keep track of a big list of all my files
a mini local one isnt to bad
still not very "auto"y

For !@#@! sake. Read http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Alternative.html and the paper that's referenced in the first paragraph, then come back and ask questions.

i'm off to bed!

ugg
so im stuck maintaining that lists huh…

list of what?

all the files in all the subdirs
so i can feed it all of them

You could automatically generate them. But it would be a silly thing to do IMHO.

why silly?

You have to declare all the files you want to compile, the same as (in most programming languages) you have to declare all the variables you intend to use.
and there are good reasons for that.

well it works
so i do have to thank all you guys
but dam…could of made autotools alittle friendlier lol…

The primary purpose of autotools is to make life easier for the person using your package. Not the person developing/maintaining it.

ill say
is there any m4 magic that would let me give the dir name and a bunch of file names
and have it glue them all together?
thatd really neaten this up…

What license does the Free Software Foundation (which sponsors the GNU project) advise?

The GPL. The FSF has declared the LGPL obsolete, and urges libraries to be released under the GPL unless there is a compelling reason to use the LGPL.
http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html
Is this true?

unless there is a compelling reason yes

hello, world,
does putting a GPL on a proprietary irc client script make any sense ?

hi gnudists

*g*

It makes as much sense as putting GPL on software, that runs only on a proprietary operating system. That's quite common thing to do.

it makes sense
It allows you to port the software

Yes
Java apps used to depend on proprietary runtime, but that's getting fixed too.

3 sun

that was logical… thank you !
s/logical/obvious/

there are also some Quake3 mods that were GPL'ed. Now that quake3 is free, they can be revived

http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page

hello, when using autoconf, automake and gettext
is AC_SUBST(localedir) implied ?
i'm asking because in Makefile.am, $localedir seems to be undefined

I put -DLOCALEDIR=\"$(localedir)\" to Makefile.am, and that works.

which version of autoconf and automake please ?

2.61 and 1.10
Did you put AM_GNU_GETTEXT in configure.ac?

2.59 and 1.9.5
yes
AM_GNU_GETTEXT([external])

info '(gettext)src/Makefile' that says that you should define localedir in the makefile, but hmm why it works for me.
info '(gettext)src/Makefile' that says that you should define localedir in the makefile, but hmm why it works for me.

maybe it's the case

Seems to be so
According to NEWS

ok thx
i can't upgrade autoconf
so i adjusted Makefile.am

that'd be the old module

ok

table ec_transaction_product sort productcount is the
offending sort
it tries to sort on a COUNT() and I could have sworn it use to work but its being weird now

ahh add_orderby has changed a bit when doing formulae
But I don't remember offhand what the change is

thanks for mentoring an SoC student with his CVS problems — project bittorrent now only has a DRUPAL-5 branch.

excellent

it's a very fine piece of code
but it'll be even better in a day or two
Chris just shifted back from feature mode to cleanup
Views integration
btw. have you guys seen nodecloud?
from description, it appears to be a godsend

I haven't
do you have any idea where i should look for the add_orderby change?
function in views_query I should look at or something

where can i see progress of the SoC modules ?

here and there.

It's in views_query, yea. Look in views_node.inc for examples of sorting on formula.

i found the Soc announcement on d.o homepage but when i navigate to the project link it leads me to code.google…. page and i can onl ysee the project proposal and not progress

http://groups.drupal.org/soc-2007

ah thank you!

mmm useful
i did not know that and have not followed. very useful.
I was following only bittorrent.

Wow, that URL needs some spreading.
Should I add it to the fp article? I don't want the usual bunch of idiots to start posting comments on g.d.o.
BT is going very well.

heh

evening, if my module changes a nodes status to '0' by executing some SQL directly on the {node} table, what could possibly change it back to '1' if left for a few hours?
it's been driving me nuts

scheduler?

Scheduler will publish and unpublish nodes on specified dates. http://drupal.org/project/scheduler

did you change the correct revision ?

ajk^: there's no modules activated like that.
yeah i did an update matching both the nid and vid
and then double checked the db a few times after it was done.
and all was correct.
4 hours later and the status had changed to '1'

nothing in the watdog log?

there's no weird way the drupal cache could alter it?

*watchdog

nah watchdog is just full of the cron completed messages

and if you switch cron off does the node stay status = 0?

""nah watchdog is just full of the cron completed messages""
Oh, the power of observation

ajk^: it's not my site, and i don't have crontab access atm

also, check the "changed" see if it aligns with ur cron runs

ah
good point

but..
he's doing a direct SQL, it wont be in watchdog then

he's not publishing it, something else is

scheduler for example

scheduler leaves a watchdog message

the created and changed timestamps are identical.
so its something else doing a direct UPDATE SQL…
i'll update the changed field when i change the status i think, to help track the odd behaviour

Budda, is it MySQL?

yeah

you could try ALTER TABLE node ADD (mychanged TIMESTAMP) and temp add a timestamp field that MySQL autoupdates
hmm, not sure if drupal web host would bork on sneaking in an extra field thou ??
Heine, you any idea about that?

(sec building a db over the phone)

i doubt it will. i've seen numerous modules that autogenerate queries based on SELECT * FROM…

my module is acutally setting the $node-status = 0 during the hook_nodeapi() 'insert' call.

I was thinking of INSERTS that expect all field values, they can be written that way and adding a field can screw them

mm

Odd, hook_nodeapi insert is executed after node_save has inserted the node.

yeah, so you have the nid
right?

my module is acutally setting the $node-status = 0 . But you also update the db, then?

heh, i decided it wasn't worth mentioning
soz
in my hook_nodeapi() i was just executing the sql host db_query('UPDATE {node} SET status = 0, changed = %d WHERE nid = %d AND vid = %d', time(), $node-nid, $node-vid);
it works on a local drupal5 install though, annoyingly.

Are you running cron there?

I see nobody scanned aggregator.module for E_NOTICE

yeah every 2 minutes
the local site is not the same as the remote site. i just developed a single module for somebody.

Make a replica, really. I had something like this in April due to their local change of core. Most annoying
Publication via the admin interface doesn't leave a watchdog trace does it?

no it doesn;t add a msg to watchdog
just a thought, if i am amending fields in the {node} table directly, should i be killing any node cache?

Any suggestions for the best way to authenticate an ajax call from a firefox plugin that needs to interface with Drupal?
(mainly trying to figure out what to use as the "glue" for all of this)

that's bit of a vague question. can you clarify?

Well, basically the FF plugin is supposed to interact with Drupal and update a custom content type. Trying to figure out how communicate between the plugin and Drupal. Does that make more sense?

won't that have the same session as you?

xmlrpc?

Smoke signals?

belly dancers!

That's a good question. I'm not sure. It needs to be able to work independently from having someone logged in on a site itself.

if you're using AJAX, there is a chance that the call will have the same session stuff
the normal ajax calls i do using jquery do

If the smoke signals don't work out then perhaps the xmlrpc.

warning: xmlrpc has no built in auth — you'd have to roll your own

how often will this cal happen?

Does anyone remember a module that let you put tags around a chunk of text, and the moduel would automatically turn that into a formatted pull quote? hmm.

(call)

tags_around_a_bunch_of_text.module?

on every request (often)

http://drupal.org/project/quote ?

I'm looking for someone with Apache + PHP as cgi (not fastcgi) and/or IIS + PHP to test something for me. Anyone willing to ? Max 5 min. Any takers?

still no takers on that??

hmmm, no.. the idea was that the text would stay where it is, but would also be *duplicated* in a little callout box, like a pull quote in a magazine..

Nope

i smell a new module

heheh

how's things going there in sunny CA?

opinions? http://marvin.elte.hu/drawing/graph

Pretty good. Baby had her first laugh today and I got to see it. And she's sleeping more today than usual.

the question is are _you_ sleeping more than usual??
it's a graph

its the output of an svg graph engine for drupal

looks ok. the x/y stuff in the parens is a bit annoying

you mean the labels?

no, the stuff inside the graph itself. (240, 300)

i see
thought its good to have the options to see the values. maybe would be better with hover

hover++

review?

I was actually catching up for a couple of days

you want to review, or want me to?

when you hover, i would make it so that it has a background that covers the graph lines behind it

Before that I've had troubles sleeping because I tweaked something in my shoulder, and there aren't many comfortable positions for me ot lie in

are you coming to barcelona?

Planning to. I haven't actually gotten tickets or anything.

'kay!

For the baby

did a round tripper for about $750

aw, man

nice!

Thereis a Broken link

i've heard the passport stuff has gotten ridiculous

Yea it has

in drupal API site
http://api.drupal.org/api/5/file/developer/examples/node_example.module/source

file an issue, submit a patch
seen unconed

that's the nice thing about vancouver tho, it's by the ocean, except it's not'.

http://drupal.org/node/156626

Drupal, menu system, normal, patch (code needs review), 7 IRC mentions

I'm not sure whether it needs more code comments to satisfy Gabor

k

it whould work, however.
(should)

hunmonk and/or pwolanin: Assuming that ajax shares the same session stuff does this mean that the FF plugin could authenticate using standard drupal website auth? The question almost seems to answer itself, but just want to make sure I'm not missing something important.

OOooooh.

Heine / ajk^ - found the f**ker. it was the flashvideo.module - in its cron hook it seems to think it has the right to set its nodes to published.

So close; it was the fourth result in my grep

Budda, you get that feeeeling of an issue coming on?

yep. you'd just need to provide some access control on your callback and it should be fine, i think
another nice thing about that is that you'll have the $user object handy as well if you need it

i ran a module_implements() on the site and then checked the modules cron hooks.

Hooray - and thanks for helping me out with this.

sure thing. good luck
off for now, folks. most likely be back later this evening…

hey, shiner! my drupal HEAD test site won't let me login on IE6 but does with FF. It's about time it happened to me, off to see why!

ajk^: flashvideo have implemented an option in the latest release to control if status should be updated.

well, there you go then, issue adverted
grr, why does IE6 think it's so smart. Won't let me set privacy settings for my test site cos it doesn't live in a "valid TLD".. grr

ajk^: , what do you use as tld?

..x
I have my own DNS servers here on my network
so my test site is http://d6.x
but IE6 doesn't like that tld

Geez. Poor aggregator.module has really not gotten any love.

’cause its a bag o' arse

Yea but it's been skipped over for all kinds of system-wide upgrades.
It's failing capitalization, l() updates, E_NOTICE updates
It's fulla broken

remove it from core

Not my call
Also I don't believe any of the alternatives are currently set up as a replacement

just puttin it out there

ajk^: add it to the host file?

just creating x.com for just that reason

hehe

well, thats my test site stuck in privacy to allows allow cookies but IE6 still won't login me in, so I actually have something to look at instead of reading the woes of others who cant login, makes a change
balls, all too easy to fix, nevermind

ping

pong

Would you be interested in evaluating Panels 2 to help figure out a good way to implement content caching?
I know you've done good work with caching
And you use Panels 1

I'll do that, assuming I can find the time

Awesome!

has anyone of you tried polyphasic sleep?

Considered it.
I have too much trouble falling asleep though.

you mean the alternate sleep deprivationmethod of existance?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep)

ya, that one

how can i remove e
how can i remove menus?
sorry

caio, try #drupal-support

Sleeping FTW

thank you!

-.-

i have tried it unknowingly

haha

but i usually crash once a month though
one friday i will sleep and wont wake up till like sunday morning

can't get your caffeine?

hi… is there a drupal function that "finds" a node id (or loads $node object) based on its url alias?

lol i dont drink much caffeince
max a 2/3 cups of tea a day

substitute speed for caffeien

hehe, i dislike the fact tht we spend nearly half our life asleep

no no, not the great darkness that means I 'might' miss something

but then again it might be a way our body deals with death….ie its preparing itself for the eternal sleep

and it's 1/3 not 1/2
I certainly don't spend 12 hours a day asleep

thats still a lot

Liar

i do about 4hrs max

It's that extra 4 hours you get at work that really does it
Er

lmao

0am sund through friday morning. bit longer on frid
not me, my friend on the other hand. half to wake him as he sometimes snores in his cubicle

i love napping at lunch times

naps are evil

better than any caffeine
seriously by having short naps, your body i find doesnt need that much continuos sleep

I either sleep or I don't. I do not nap. My wife can and does

i nap to recoup.. usually on wednesdays since i have to hit the gym then footy afterwards

Green tea is da bomb

it's called recovery, you cannot recoup sleep

such a friggin pedant

I've read that 10 minutes power naps can do miracles.. I'm not sure if it's true though.

it entirely depends on the individual

I guess

hahahahah… I love googling sites and find they still have the Drup0licon

it's almost as fun as finding that they have php services on for anon comments

doh…..
that's just wrong

It looks cool

dude. You found that?

Nope.
It was a big ruffle here on #drupal a couple… weeks? months? back.

eaton, you have a sec for a problem?

nowpublic?

some folks dida google search and found a few dozen sites that had left php on for anon comments.
Whoops!
ajk^: fire away

http://drupal.org/node/158665

Drupal, forms system, critical, patch (code needs review), 1 IRC mention

Oh, for the love.

it really needs the Eaton touch I'm afraid

ajk^: this is related to the _value patch tat was mis-committed.

how do you compile that search string?

they commited the wrong version of the patch instead of the one that I fixed that problem in.

ah, you have a link I can follow it up on?

interesting search

ajk^: just posted to your issue and pointed to the other one

cheers

tags in anonymous comments

can you use google to find out wheter a site has php filter turned on/off?

I wouldn't discuss that in public

merlinofchaos, why not, webchick posted a google search to the dev list

that is a case of misconfiguration

you are right. But I'm..emm.. intrigued

not the default setting

Oh most definitely. I informed the administrator once I figured out what was going on
uOh most definitely. I informed the administrator once I figured out what was going on/u

hi there

I'll bet if you make a custom Paris hilton search engine, you are gonna be rich

ajk^: no, to the security list.

ah, was it? I get so confused ! (which is pretty easy this time of night

I'm generally not THAT foolish, although someone did post it in this channel, which is why I pinged the security list.

http://grulez.com/~foutrelis/paris/

eaton, should that issue not raise to crit rather than "needs work"? Does it need a new patch rolling for it?
*from normal to crit I mean

ajk^: if you could that would be *awesome*. I just haven't had a chance to roll a diff that takes us from the state of the 'bad' atch in the _value issue to the state of the 'good' patch

eaton, ok, I'll work on that now, tis crit imho

finally! Paris Hilton is hackable
and approachable for geeks

lol

put as backgroundpaper in your shell
you ain't a geek before you've watched all seasons of star trek in ascii

lol

again?

geeky

btw, mplayer can play ascii

I can hot myself with a hammer too, some things just don't need to be done however

as in output a regular movie in ascii

hot == hit

yes

I can hit you if you want

the point is, if can't do it ascii, it can't be done

oddly enough, next to desk

*grabs

is that a ninja sword?

good lord no

Holy crap aggregator.module is broken in HEAD

already known

ok, then I'm safe

how broken, exactly?
VERY broken.

Can't edit feeds.
Reading feeds works. ADding feeds works. E_NOTICE errors all over

Whoops!

Some l() calls were never converted

wow. that's cobwebby.

http://head.logrus.com/aggregator/categories/1
Er, need to give perms

Ooooooooooooh notices

And arnings and SQL errors too

awesome

greta?

Greta the Goat-Chinned is add1sun's evil twin. She is known to delete whatever she finds annoying - which could be most anything - and the goat on her chin makes a horrible bleating noise known to scare even grown men.

The brokenness is making it hard for me to templatize.
Guess I get to fix all this too

webchick?

A wizard?! RUN, my muggle friends, RUN!

Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

LOL

ootanda?

uuugh, anyone used nodetemplate with audio nodes? Seems like some magic is required.

meta?

Simply ask your question. No need to ask to ask . Unless you are doing a census, asking whether anyone uses a module isn't going to result in a useful answer.

support?

Please throw a quarter in the support jar (http://association.drupal.org/donations) . #drupal is reserved for development discussions (please see channel topic). Volunteers offering live support can be found in #drupal-support. If no one is available in #drupal-support, try the forums at http://drupal.org/forum. Thank you for giving us a space to work on improving Drupal for you!

really, do try

moi?

ping

http://drupal.org/node/121620#comment-274411

Drupal, forms system, critical, patch (code needs review), 33 IRC mentions

awesome, ajk^ .. .I will test and most likely RTBC that tongiht after I run a quick errand.
It's regrettable the old version got committed

yeah, but hopefully we can get this in quick cos that was some work going back thru all the patches that were applied after 1.207
rerolling it would be fun
well, prob not that bad now a patch exists at least that jump starts it

yeah, this actually wouldn't be hard because form.inc doesn't change that often.
when chx and I aren't staring at it
heh

merely staring does not change it
but i get what you mean

but when we stare hard at it, the danger of changes is high
heh

yes
that's true

who is Anthony Oliver?

xamox

ahh…

it says in the message if you're looking at hte message I think you are

that works for me then

how do I get the first child of an array?

I need to get my resume up on my site this weekend

Crell is on aggregator

'l;') how can I get the 'df' part?

without knowing the keys

splititng it and fixing as he goes.
array_search?

http://php.net/array_search

^^

thanks
but that's not what I was looking for
how do I get the first element

the first element…?
reset each next

wha?

Ah, ok. I know he's leaving the theming stuff alone.

current?

http://php.net/current

these are php functions
ajk^: current is rarely useful…

Though maybe I should pause this one and move onto comment.
WHen I go through Drupal's modules, only a few jump out as Need To Templatize.

chx, I found a few uses for it

yes and leave node system and user to me.
I told this to crell
is there a wiki page I need to enlist on? I already have a function list for these three

I'm going to work user over when I templatize it. Will definitely wait.
There's an issue but no wiki

templatize?

Turn theme functions into .tpl.php files

ahhh

See http://drupal.org/node/158536

Drupal, theme system, normal, patch (code needs review), 8 IRC mentions

Oh, I had what I think is a really good idea.
We should create a documentation standard: All functions that are meant to be used in drupal_get_form() should be documented as @ingroup forms and should include a description of what the form is.

hmmm-hmmm
do we have a forms group already?
form api?
if not then good idea

That group is form
So 'form' for stuff about making forms, and forms for actual form definitions.

god then
good , i mean

e answers in 5 minutes
159245

1 IRC mention

LMAO

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yes, very sad

no
it's a spinoff from dragonfly with some influence from mambo

:|

and i am not coding it, i am keeping an infinite amount of monkeys in the basement glued to typewrites and whatever looks good i submit.

Well, _that_ we suspected :p

lol

pretty good monkeys you have
http://drupal.org/node/159248

1 IRC mention

Once again
Webhostingbuzz doing the sockpuppet dance.
You have my +1 to nuking any webhostingbuzz topic

lmao, what a creative title! http://drupal.org/node/159238

1 IRC mention

I run lighttpd+fastcgi

I'll send you a mail (should have your address somewhere)

Just sent you an email

Thanks

well, will have just sent you an email in a couple seconds
well, will have just sent you an email services spam free in a couple seconds
there

Ok, reply should be on its way

Entire response to second request was "No input file specified."

Cool
You've send the first one ?
More and more I doubt the mental powers of the PHP developers.

Sending now
OK
(The weird USER stuff in $_SERVER is due to a test I left in my webserver config file)

Thanks a lot!

np
Heine:
I turned on cgi.fix_pathinfo
and got a response

Can you please send that one too?

Yeah
I had broken-scriptfilename on
#
"broken-scriptfilename": breaks SCRIPT_FILENAME in a way that PHP can extract PATH_INFO from it (default: disabled)
#

O you did already

But apparently PHP doesn't make use of it without cgi.fix_pathinfo
go figure

So the last one = cgi.fix_pathinfo ON + broken-scriptfilename ON

Yeah
I'll resend the first test in that configuration too, moment
ok
Is this for a removal of $_GET['q'] perchance?

I've received it. Thank you!
pm?
Eh, pm?

oh goody, several thousand comment spam on my site

With captcha?
with _my_ captcha?

no captcha. moderation

how it's yours?

I am testing something
Heine's is popular

btw. i have rewritten an –older version of– captcha to not use session

Yep, using session sux

when I had Heine's on, I had very very very few

No easy timeout (cache), bloat of session, and still form_id collisions

Anyone know if anything in Drupal 5.x-dev requires a db upgrade against 5.1? I don't think I can hold out for 5.2 anymore, but I'm worried about a potential can of worms.

look in update.php

http://drupal.pastebin.co.uk/19242

good call - thanks.

chx, http://heine.familiedeelstra.com/mycaptcha-download

my version has a lot of to do with wundo's — at least i did not need to rewrite admin forms
:P

Hello.

the actual implementation, though has nothing to do with his

Is there a way to make some type of node only accessible by a defined group ?

and I loathe image captcha.

I can break math captcha in perhaps 5 mins.
Not much captcha's remain
Time to sleep (probably for you to chx). Night folks

good night. I already slept four hours but yes I will go back soon
Sorry, you can only read/write strings, ints, floats and dicts
that's an array.
in php lingo.

PHP 'array' is Python 'dict'

also. what ’bout performance?
i know

performance sucks slightly, but not too bad

I know a very little Python

a python process gets popen'ed, and request/response packets go between php and python via the python proc's stdio
a python process gets popen'ed, and request/response packets go between php and python via the python proc's stdio

ick

anyone game to help me reproduce an error before I submit an issue?

so we have a lisp interpreter, though written in PHP. We have a bridge to Python. We can run Drupal in Java.
blimey! Firefox have eaten 780M of my RAM. Begone!

any recommends on good tutorials for custom module / app building in 5.1?

seen hunmonk?

hunmonk was last seen in #drupal 5 hours 34 min ago saying 'off for now, folks. most likely be back later this evening…'.

ping

condition, etc. ?

did someone say 'conditions'

why?

Druplicon, why is replyBecause I said so, that's why.

why?
that's a dis-allowed keyword
why drupal?
why is drupal?
what is drupal?
drupal?
Drupal?
oh noes!
support?

Please throw a quarter in the support jar (http://association.drupal.org/donations) . #drupal is reserved for development discussions (please see channel topic). Volunteers offering live support can be found in #drupal-support. If no one is available in #drupal-support, try the forums at http://drupal.org/forum. Thank you for giving us a space to work on improving Drupal for you!

haha

good

oh noes really needs to be in that array
i mean really.

ya

scared

Okay.

http://drupaldojo.com/lesson/24

oh noes!
LOL…
If you feel we're missing something, pop onto irc.freenode.net,

I KNOW!

Is it really a good idea to change the terminology at this stage?

haha

I certainly see that as a benefit for new users
I would at least like to change some of the odder terminollogy

eaton-frys: Where are you that there is a fry's?
Filter isn't an odd term
Would you like Fry's with that?

maybe not filter, but some other things maybe maybe

there's one in Downers Grove, IL — about 30 minutes or so from here.

oh, yes please, with a side of RAM?

Oh neat. I didn't realize they were in IL.
You must comment on my devel post.

the speakers in my living room were dying and they had a pair of polks on sale for about 35% of normal retail ,so.
the speakers in my living room were dying and they had a pair of polks on sale for about 35% of normal retail ,so.

are they running the freaking animusic dvd nonstop at your Fry's too?
on the big screen out front

Nice post. Does it come here often?

so, the idea is putting @ingroup forms around the form builder, submit, etc, validate functions?

I'm not sure if it should include the submit/validate functions (but maybe should include an @see to make it easy to link to them)
Because grouping them all together will make the group pretty littered
My favorite Fry's is the one in Burbank
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rekrapnala/110118517/

whoa

Mmmmm… Yeah. I'd lean towards everything going into the same group. I love the idea in general though - just a matter of deciding how much.
bMmmmm… Yeah. I'd lean towards everything going into the same group. I love the idea in general though - just a matter of deciding how much./b

ours just has a stupid piano

hah. that's awesome.

http://asymptotia.com/wp-images/2006/12/frys_electronics_2.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56979330@N00/524154181/

Here we have the Fry's & Noble, the Western Fry's, the Mayan Temple o' Fry's and the Aztec Temple o' Fry's.
And the Unremarkable Fry's

you get a UFO… we get a freaking piano

Well. Burbank does. I'm pretty far from Burbank
They apparently got a set designer group to do that. Cause, y'know. THey're in Burbank.

our fry's is totally boring.

has anyone ever even bought a piano from fry's?

other than having lots of cheap speakers.
http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/images/2007/07/13/breaky.jpg

I think I'm very much in favor of just the main builder function @ingroup, with the submit/validate/theme functions getting @see that link back and forth to each other.

Yeah, the @see makes sense.
posting to devel now

lemme just edit my case study n workflow-ng
I think views can learn quite a bit from it
though it's still a bit confusing
I will edit and then post tommorow.

are you in Chicago?

but I'm off for now…

yep

Well, Naperville
Or uh near Naperville

What's that?

Cool…I'm in Lincoln Square, used to be in Forest Park.
And before that, Hyde Park.
Any connection to the Chicago Tech Coop?
(my former employers, currently room mates with a Coop member)

ping

hi there.
someone on the dev list mentioned that module writers could specify in the .info file for their modules from which server updates should be checked by update_status.module, but I can't seem to find the relevant documentation.
would someone know where this is documented ?

I don't believe we actually documented it yet
It appears to be 'project status url' which I believe is a change from what it was when I initially wrote it
It's a little verbose, but it doesn't matter

thanks, I'm currently checking within the code for this. If I did some doc, where should it go ?

Im not sure, I meant to ask dww. Theoretically it could go in writing .info files but I don't think it should actually go there.
But that's the most likely place.

this is indeed where I looked first
good night

woohow NYC drupal camp 3 is only 5 hours away ^_^

god
i so
hate
php

hi guys..spammer alert..can someone block this guy? http://drupal.org/user/162989

Oh dear, since when can you advertise for notebooks on d.o. ?

why the PHP-hate?

well
with the soc theming going on
i wanted to investigate if you could create arbitrary masked fills with PHP
i.e; given a grayscale mask
make a transparent png that has a solid color, and the mask as alpha
so you can blend it over another solid color

Right

hence allowing not only arbitrary gradients, but custom colored decorations and such
except
doing it through gd's imagecolorat/imagesetpixel is incredibly slow, 2s for a 300×300 image
nevermind an entire theme

ewwww.

so i hit upon the idea of saving the mask as a grayscale png with a grayscale 8-bit palette
then editing the file directly, changing the palette to the solid color, and assigning alpha to each palette entry
since png supports this natively
png turns out to be not at all too bad a format

lemme guess, the library doesn't

and i have this working entirely
except
even though gd has supported loading and saving of paletted alpha images
nobody apparently actually tried to use this to do anything
until january 2007

png is actually shockingly versatile. i did some articles on it for various tech mags in the mid 90s when GIF had just gottan controversial.
unfortunately 10 years later nobody fully supports the spec.

which means

it's like the CSS of graphic formats.

we need to wait for GD 2.0.34 to be commonplace

mmmmmm.

http://drupal.pastebin.com/m61154d7a
it's all nice too
anyway, i hate PHP because, as a platform for serious serious dev, it sucks big fat hairy cock
at least for a cms supplier
our hands are so tied
even glorious hacks like this turn out to not work
and the really really frustrating bit$
is that a couple years ago i was handcoding bilinear filtering and other fun image processing ops in tight mmx assembly

i will say, i do miss C# sometimes. though it came with its own ginormous backpack full of platform-suck.

i know how it should be done

heh. yeaaaaah, that's a wee bit more flexible.

also annoyingly
i had to port the crc32 code from the png spec over to php
to verify if it matched crc32() in php
since the polynomial is not documented
and there are supposedly bugs with 64-bit machines and suhc

Sorry. That's just…
there is a small subset of the community that would say, I had to port the PNG spec to PHP to verify it.

it was just c code for crc

It warms my heart. Even though the result is crappy.

you insert dollar signs and remove the variable declarations
voila, PHP

heh

tho of course
PHP has no logical right shift operator
only arithmetic

you'd think it would be easy since it's basically a C wrapper

it just means every bitshift is followed by an and
to null the negative bits shifting in
also
i want closures damnit
$skip = create_function('', 'static $n = 0; return ($n++ % 3) == 0;');
$chunk = implode('', array_filter(str_split($palette), $skip));
this is just ick
also
if I see another $('.class') jquery selector somewhere
i swear if I will start killing puppies
s/if//

Noooooo
think of the puppies!

$('.class') = full dom tree search
makes javascript interpret cry
$('#id') otoh is zippy fast
$('tag.class') is moderately fast
these are like the 3 postulates of John Resig
i figured there's be stone tablets somewhere that people would see

id, tag.class, and then if you absolutely have to, .class?

$('.class', foo) should only be used on a subset
with a handful of potential matches
basically there is document.getElementById and element.getElementsByTagName
the rest follows from that
since everything else requires manual scanning
and jquery is smart enough to pick the fastest way

some people don't get that APIs are speed-constrained by their underlying stack

i know
the problem with things like jquery
is that people no longer know dom
it's the same with drupal
the more we provide abstraction layers
the less people who will know how far down it really goes
and i think for the average drupal user these days, it's turtles all the way down

indeed.

i agree
its a common problem

"When you're working on a really, really good team with great programmers, everybody else's code, frankly, is bug-infested garbage, and nobody else knows how to ship on time. When you're a cordon bleu chef and you need fresh lavender, you grow it yourself instead of buying it in the farmers' market, because sometimes they don't have fresh lavender or they have old lavender which they pass off as fresh.

why addslashes($head_title); would not add slashes when that variable is filled by a function?
function is variable_get
otherwise $head_title = "O'reilly"; addslashes($head_title) works fine

we need druplicon cooking hats

hello, cafepress!

they have cooking hats?

I'm looking. heh.
Awww, only BBQ aprons.
http://www.coolaprons.com/hats.htm

http://www.e-cookbooks.net/aprons/chefhats.htm
a href="http://www.e-cookbooks.net/aprons/chefhats.htm"http://www.e-cookbooks.net/aprons/chefhats.htm/a

When using SOAP, it's usually bad form to start with Java code and then generate WSDLs from it.
Define your WSDL and schema first, then the stubs, then the java web hosting code.

I already have my wsdl, I was trying to create the java code using wsdl2java but ran into problems
That's why I was trying this way
As you probably notices I'm a newbie to JAVA in general

WSDL2Java - you need to specify to it where you want to generate the stubs.

let me try again

Among other things. I don't recall all the command line options but basically you run that, generate your stubs, and only muck with the WhateverServiceClassHere_Impl.java file.
Everything else you leave alone.

do you know any simple hello world tutorial for that? most of the tutorial I found where either outdated or either for different webservers

omg my pizza is cold

need to take a break this project is frying my brain. no amount of carbs or caffiene help.
need to take a break this project is frying my brain. no amount of carbs or caffiene help.

~tell Rasimu about pm.

Rasimu, pm is something that you should do to 'bots, like Drone and me, but not to other users without asking first. See: http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php/FAQ/Pm

That was cold, man.

Hi can anyone tell me if it's possible to get all events from a JFileChooser? I need to know if the user selects 'home', parent folder, root, dbl-clicks a file, etc.
uHi can anyone tell me if it's possible to get all events from a JFileChooser? I need to know if the user selects 'home', parent folder, root, dbl-clicks a file, etc./u

hello

*

sup joed

should have been in bed. redoing a Syslogd.

joed:

of course it is. implement all the appropriate Listener classes

whaley!

It is OSS, so lack of sleep is good.

~joed++

joed has a karma level of 65, _^_

good evening

Fanook, any idea chich? I've tried Component, container, action listeners…

~Hodapp++

Changing one's own karma is not permitted.
hodapp has a karma level of -1, Hodapp

chich=which

how do i change the jre used by netbeans 5.5?

Which servlet container are you using?

~tell Hodapp about Hodapp++

Hodapp, Changing one's own karma is not permitted.
Hodapp, hodapp has a karma level of -2, Hodapp

what?

create the dialog, and figure out what listeners you need on the JDialog (I assume you're doing a JFileChooser.showDialog() or similar).
_^_: don't do that
~Hodapp++

hodapp has a karma level of -1, Fanook

nvrmind

What ?

yay!

You're happy about -1 karma ?
well more power to ya I suppose

_^_, come to ##swing for a second

_^_: you decremented his karma by doing that. don't

Sorry but I don't know what you mean

I don't do that, sorry

Fanook, no I am using JFileChooser+FileSystemView where the FSV has a list of files from another machine; therefore when user selects parent folder in chooser I need to know to update the FSV

you don't #swing that way?

how about a quickie behind the bleechers after gym _^_?

What gym ?
I see no gym

lets say there was in fact a gym
how about then?

..

I recall what was my problem while trying to use wsdl2java, no matter what I tried I kept on get the "Content is not allowed in prolog" message

If there was in fact a gym, I might consider it
but that does not actually mean there IS a gym

_^_ = r0bby

joed, why did you kick me?

!op
I don't think I am, sorry

if you were bearded_wonder? You asked for a break?

LMAO

agrajag
where have I heard that name
hmm.. something about a galaxy

Spend less time on IRC, more on code.

i think you generally use the dialog from the JFileChooser to actually do anything (i really don't know for sure, haven't really used this component). Hence, you should be able to listen to the dialog and respond accordingly

very close to arajag in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Yes that's the one

actually, Mostly Harmless, the 5th book in the trilogy

ah, that's a hilarious quintilogy

joed, actually i came in here to take a break and talk about my java project. I've been coding for almost 11 hours nonstop.

_^_: it's a trilogy. a 5-part trilogy, but still a trilogy

g'day. say i have an Animal and Dog class, Dog extends Animal. In the Dog constructor, i call super(). say both classes implement an eat() method. in the Animal's constructor, how do i call Animal's eat() and not Dog's?

Agrajag-: super.eat()

Fanook, I think the problem is al 'internal events' (within the component) are hidden

super.eat() from with the Animal's constructor? right ok

I always forget the details

i don't think that's correct

?

Agrajag-: Wick is currently in Jail.

That means that your XML is wrong.

no idea what you're on about

Are you using an XML host editor, or are you just eyeballing the WSDL and XSD?

I validate it wih altova xmlspy. it is valid

Are you using valid schema elements?

Agrajag-: try it. see what happens.

I created it using the xml editor, it must be valid

i did. cannot find symbol.

cannot find symbol? That means that the superclass doesn't implement eat !

Agrajag-: then you've defined it incorrectly in Animal. pastebin your code

Anyway. Time to cook dinner. See ya.

dinner at 9pm? sheesh

C. C's constructor does super(), so B constructor gets called, and it's B's eat() that i want to call from B's constructor (not A's, a doesn't have an eat(), but if it did, i wouldn't want to call that either)

heh

Agrajag-: then you just do eat()

unless C implements eat(), that is
then you're screwed

~Fanook ++

I guess the factoid 'be fanook' might be appropriate:

C does implement eat()
that's what im trying to say

_^_: he's in B's c'tor

Paisano!

Agrajag-: when in C's c'tor, eat will call C.eat, super.eat will call B.eat. when in B's c'tor, eat will call B.eat

i tried just doing eat() in B's constructor, but that call's C's eat()

Zn4p lives in Guadalajara.

oh, right. duh

I'm going to sic him your way.

ok.. i will test again if that's the case

hey pr3d4t0r

Hej.

who's that?

isn't there an invokevirtual directive or something, that tells the VM to not call the most derived classs' method ?

Zn4p.

oh, is he new to the channel or what?

Some dude from Sweden who's got a nice site in Mexico.

Agrajag-: if you want to call B.eat, you need to do it from C's constructor, as that's the only way you can tell the compiler not to use the overridden version

He speaks pretty nice Spanish too.

ah. right, ok. i'll just rename B's method then, i don't want to call it from C's constructor

oh!
pr3d4t0r, what is he doin' here? Sweden is nice

It is cold and rainy.

but they have nice girls too

So they do in Mexico.

WE do

He's running away from the cold.

oh

Tapatías culonas.

he chosed a nice place then

Anyway, I'll send him your way.

pr3d4t0r, certaintly

I know, my wife is from there.

Do you know of any gossip sites in .mx that will have video?
I want to watch the videos from my brother's wedding yesterday.

uhm.. esmas.com probably?

Nope.

is he from GDL? if he's you can look at any "sociales" newspaper section

No, from Mexico.
The wedding was in Tepeji del Río.
I tried esmas.com (Televisa) but I don't know sites for TVAzteca or TeleMundo

oh

Someone told me earlier that there's video on the 'net but I can't find it.
And my retard brother never updates his site.

http://www.tvazteca.com.mx/espectaculos/

Nada
Gracias
Je, je, je… por error me encontré a Yuridia.

dónde?

¿Qué onda con esa chava? ¿Es hija de Yuri?
TVAzteca.

couldn't he send you the photos?

He's in Cancún, honeymoon.
And his g/f made such a big deal that I know I can find video somewhere.

is he some sort of mexican celebrity?

Ah, found one.
He's a movie director.
His wife is an actress.

do anything up here?

Fucking video is tiny.
Not yet.
If you watch Spanish TV you can catch her in a couple of sitcoms, I think. I don't watch TV, so I don't know what she does for work, actually.

w00t

http://www.lamujermovie.com/
thats because barbara mori is a hawtttie

that doesn't sound like java . . .

anyways.

Hej.
F00ken whiner.

pr3d4t0r, te late Vanessa Mae?

She's chingona.

silly boy. pr3d4t0r === java

~tell _^_ about STFU.

_^_, http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=ded

~tell _^_ about STFU.

pr3d4t0r …

~tell _^_ about STFU

_^_, http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=ded

~tell _^_ about STFU

pr3d4t0r …

~tell _^_ about STFU

pr3d4t0r …

~tell _^_ about STFU

pr3d4t0r …

Haha.

Your 'bot is b0rk'd.
~literal STFU

reply(http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=warning | http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=ded)

wow

no it has a tel patch.

It's not displaying the first one.
joed–

joed has a karma level of 64, pr3d4t0r

right, and then waits a whle.

~tell _^_ about STFU.

_^_, http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=ded

What's up?

_^_ suffice to say you suck.

no

~tell _^_ about STFU

_^_, http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=warning

that does not suffice

Ah, there it is.

I need to be told at least 30 times

can we just, like .. eradicate?
ahh there we go

pr3d4t0r, http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=lolcode_r hah nice one

about time to hit the sack, we put a flood tell fix in from ernimril.
~pr3d4t0r++

pr3d4t0r has a karma level of 357, joed

so anyway
what is the closest class to arraylist but with a string key rather than an int key

Map
either HashMap or LinkedHashMap

~javadoc java.util.HashMap

Gracenotes, please see java.util.HashMap: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/HashMap.html

^^

thx again
you guys are teh best

we know

us++

we are…two wild and crazy guys!

Ping…
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=46581
^^^

pong

can't open the page pr3d4t0r

Well…
I just resigned.
^_^

…

how did the boss take it?

svm_invictvs++

svm_invictvs has a karma level of 13, pr3d4t0r

. . .
It works fine.

nope.

Oh, this time it didn't load. Weird.
They must be updating the code
~lolcode

pr3d4t0r, I have no idea what lolcode is.

Ah, dinner.
See you.

freenode is pissing me off, they klined my home machine for no apparent reason

why doesn't the Polygon class have a constructor that takes an array of Point objects
that would be too simple

DCTW, did some prick admin promote you?

I just tryed to connect and it just let me in then k-lined me hah.

and the constructor that is supplied is (int[], int[], length) couldnt they attain the length from the supplied arrays

DCTW, it's off topic here. you may want to take it to #freenode.

im there

here is another one, why doesn't Integer have a method that tells you if its even or odd?

its just pissing me off they are slow

DCTW, if you were honestly following the rules of freenode and feel that you were unfairly k-lined, you may also want to talk to someone at the network level. most channel level admins are moronic pions.

he hasn't read it yet.

why did you resign?

I work 60+ hours a week.

ick

whats wrong with that?
overworked??

depends on the job
and the person
I work 60 hours a week and I hate it on a job that I don't like, if it were exactly what I wanted to do I'd love it

60+ hours a week on a mismanaged project.

I've seen people do almost nothing for 60 hours a week except show up and drink coffee
and tell jokes all day long
get paid like $13 an hour for it

ive taken over those peoples jobs
well we used to have some ppl at my work
that were like that

Where, when one guy makes a fix to 1 bug, and 5 more pop up because everything is a dirty hack.
And…
I just ran WC on my parts of the code.

~catalyst

bearded_oneder, I have no idea what catalyst is.

hello there

okay this may be a new one for people…. how can i go about changing folder permissions using java?… ive already tried Runtime.getRuntime.exec("sudo chown newUser /home/guy/folder");
…. doesn't work

I just WC'd the code.

hu?

is their a way to get a mysql driver "org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" to connect to localhost via a unix socket

YangYin, was your JVM launched under a user account with sufficient priveleges to change owner?

sure. use localhost in your connection string

odd that it doesn't work… even the runtime exe of chown… i ls -l and its still under the same user

I just wc'd the project code.
I wrote 65% of it.
of three engineers, I wrote 64% of the lines of code on a project that's approximately 135k lines of code
THe other two engineers wrote, each wrote the remaining percentage which is like 18% each or so.

merp

And, earlier today, I had my source control privileges revoked.
Because somebody accused me of sabotoge.

sounds like they're screwed

lol

And, they tell me, that I'm unproductive.

sounds like a great placeto work

That I dont' focus.
And i got a job offer for another job witha slightly higher salary.
I've been micromanaged
and my personal integrity has come into question.
There's not project requirements at all.
And now the tests are failing.
So…

damnit
figured out the problem…

I goofed up one checkin/checkout procedure and reverted some code accidentally.

time to write that nasty resignation letter where you burn some bridges

my sudoers is still requireing a password

no, I was very professional.

last job i left, i gave a 1 month notice… only to leave the same day and not return

A fellow engineer stormed out of the lab and called me "a fucking idiot"
Then reported me to HR for being unprofesional to him.

sounds like a great place to work for…
really great

YangYin, what was it?

he needed to supply a password for the sudo command

\Because I told him, "Look, every time you fix one bug, five more pop up."

ah

"I dont' know what you do, but your'e not being produtive."

i think the problem is that "application must work" isn't in the requirements

lol

i can't claim that one for myself. it's the latest wtf.com

svm_invictvs, so did you leave completely or do you still have to work out 2 weeks?

I gave 3 weeks 3 days.

anyone here familiar with ejb3 transactions?

One of which is consumed by a vacation I had planned months ago.

i'd bet you're gonna be escorted off the property before that

They told me, "If you leave now your integrity is in jeopardy."

on the plus side, if they've revoked your source control access, they shouldn't expect you to actually be able to work

he'll be gone before he has a chance
svm_invictvs, this happened yesterday right?
and youre due back there this morning right?

? i thought i did fix the sudoers file to make it so i dont have to give password when i chown

YangYin, yes, fanook filled me in

oh
well i figured it out now
sudoers file is a little tough to figure out but i got it

i think you can pass the password as an argument in the worst case

nope
tried to link commands
didn't work
and the people at #linux thought i was trying to do something conspicuous it was kinda funny

anyone familiar with ejb3 transactions?

99 methods of code in the specs. 99 methods of code. hacked one down. pass it around. 99 methods of code.
OOPS! 98* LOL … tired.

my experience is more like 99, hack one down, 100

rawbdor, "The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of the development time."?

heh always
course for me, i tend to find the first 10% takes 90% of the time
thte next 85% takes 2%, adn the last 5% takes 8%

rawbdor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule
joke

rawbdor, I've worked with ejb3 transactions…

do you have a spare moment?

rawbdor, sure

let me pastebin this file =]

is this channel also for servlets ?

you can try

i am starting with learning servlets what's the best servlet services container i can use

apache tomcat

and what is was is it also a container ?

it's lightweight

tomcat is the best for beginners with servlets

true

it's one of the most widely used so there will also be a lot of support for it
http://pastebin.ca/674418

thanks i will install tomcat and what is "was" btw ?

was?

yeah was
some stuff from ibm

basically, i must be misunderstanding the spec. This is a stateless session bean. The grow legs requires a new transaction, so I assume my container (jboss) creates one… or crated one already. 50% of the time it reaches forbidden, and is still able to execute code there. Any idea why?

like websphere application server?

yeah i think that's it

blah
forget it!

it is also a servlet container ?

rawbdor, why are you expecting an EJBException?

is it common practice to pass parameters 4 methods deep?

afaik, the transaction is spanned for all methods invoked in your first ejb method

amitev, I don't think that's the case…
rawbdor, if you were to call em.merge() in forbidden(…) you'd get a PersistenceException

let me try that

rawbdor, but you don't call em.merge(t) in growLegs() either; in the end, nothing is persisted/merged

it is persisted and merged. I can tell because I'm staring at the database
I do not get any persistence exception
i added the merge and i still get no exceptions

Hey there

OK, so maybe amitev is correct, and I'm not

anyone here used chainsaw already?

so how would i go about to force some type of transaction error?

why should he get an exception?

I'm trying to set up an UDPReceiver with it but when I send events to it it won't listen
and the receiver's "active" flag is set to false - how do I activate it?

im basically trying to make a proof-of-concept where if I have a transaction and wander into a method *not* permissive of transactions, it fails on me. That's what I'm trying to show

if TransactionAttributeType is NEVER, but is ignored if a transaction is in process, then he wouldn't

What sites would you recommend to register a domain name?

the spec says "NEVER" will not ignore a transaction already created. It will fail

afaik the transaction attribute of the root method is used

so how do i go about forcing an error?

throw an exception ?

no i need to prove the container does it for you
as its supposed to
the spec says the container is supposed to throw exceptions if execution wanders into a NEVER method when a transaction is in scope
when does it do that? only between beans?

i think so

what if i added a method onto my entity bean that was scoped never? would that generate the failure of the stateless tried to call it?
that didn't seem to do anything either… and my entity had a method : @TransactionAttribute(TransactionAttributeType.NEVER) public void never() {setNumLegs(getNumLegs()-1);}

rawbdor, have you tried putting forbidden into another SLSB?
it appears that jboss ignores the TransactionAttributeType if you call from within another type
I can provide some links, if you want to pursue it further

yes links will be much appreciated

How can I map a function to the elements of an array in java? like pythons map() to lists

You can't.
At least not without sufficient pain to make it not worth the effort.

rawbdor, http://groups.google.com/group/mugshot/msg/9a7773a162f29bde or http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4043164 (on the JBoss Seam list) are probably the most relevant one's I've found so far… mostly complaints, but some discussion in the second

to bad, thanks

It is indeed too bad.
It might be fixed in Java 7.

i've read somewhere that the spec guys plan to add something like .net delegates in java 6
java 7

thank you very much. using a second bean worked

rawbdor, glad it worked!

now i get to make 10-12 examples

rawbdor, sounds fun

something for jboss tools ?

Hello, what's wrong with my code?
http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=3850
I can't add an action to the menu in the part between those "//" … "//"!

Have you read the Sun tutorial on Actions?

No, I don't want to read it. What did I do wrong?

is there any way to get the bytes how much an empty instance of a class takes up?

Stormbreaker, what's the _exact_ error you're getting?

Severity and Description Path Resource Location Creation Time Id
ActionEvent cannot be resolved to a type SLF SLF.java line 17 1188373501691 72
That's the first…
Severity and Description Path Resource Location Creation Time Id
The type new AbstractAction(){} must implement the inherited abstract method ActionListener.actionPerformed(ActionEvent) SLF SLF.java line 16 1188373501691 70

O_o

That's the second…!

or how much ram the application is currently taking up in the jvm

Stormbreaker, _don't_ paste more than two lines to the channel.

ok

Now, why do you think it's telling you it can't implement the abstract method actionPerformed?

Because… Because…? o0

~tell Stormbreaker about star imports

Stormbreaker, star imports is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Java_Programming/StarImports

Ah, I know! The component needs an ActionListener registered, am I right?

No, carry on reading.

Ah..

?

I imported AbstractAction and Action, but it still gives me errors.
Got no ActionListener.

Repaste your code?
Because after importing AbstractAction, it all worked rosy for e.
*me

http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=3851
There you go ^^

Did you even read the link javabot gave you? :s
Do you even know how to use Google? The Java API? I take it not.

*Reads again*

Err, when I say I imported AbstractAction, I lied and mistyped, it's something else that you're not importing correctly. *

is there any way to get the bytes how much an empty instance of a class takes up or how much ram the application is currently taking up in the jvm?

I think they're a bit different from .NET delegates.
In some ways better, in some ways worse. Broadly similar though.

Stormbreaker, Google "ActionEvent".

(Depending on exactly which implementation they go for it could either be a lot of ways worse or a number of ways better. )

Now it works for me, thank you.

Hi all!
Does anyone knows how of a good example on how to use javax.net.ssl in a client to a web service?

It happened today.
I think I'm behind you timewise.

for example, can I simple do a "HttpsConnection scon = (HttpsConnection) url.openConnection ();" ??

myMap, and I need to make a copy of this. How do I go about doing this?

yeah, beta3 is out
I'll probably upgrade in our project on Monday after we've completed the current sprint
oh, wrong channel again
ane hot!
anyway, wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is out! Get yours while they're hot!

help anybody?

what determines whether a javax.naming.directory.Attribute turns out as 'ordered' after querying an LDAP?
(I'm getting an 'unordered' Attribute that should be ordered, and wondering where to fix that)

iterate and copy everything?

dangertools, tried that but it doesn't seem to work…doing some tests

hm anyone knows how to filter *.jar files (added to the build path) inside eclipse's project explorer? in eclipse 3.3 (was easy in the previous version.)

same way : package explorer view, click the arrow, filters, and pattern *.jar….what's diffrent ?
and same thing in project explorer….click upper right arrow

class Client { private final SubClient = SubClient.newInstance(); } abstract class SubClient { static SubClient newInstance() { return Class.forName(properties.get("SubClient"); } }

only has preset patterns. and *.jar isn't one of these. and I can't seem to find how to add a pattern to that list.

exceptions etc omitted for clarity
would you consider that a case of dependency injection?
i.e. when Client actually creates the object, but using a static factory method that relies on a (perhaps external) property set to find the concrete type?

have you done this on 3.3 ?

I'm on 3.3

hey guys

I don't see "customize view, but directly "filters" from within the view…
Eclipse SDK
3.3.0
I20070625-1500

if I pass a class to a function, and the function alters the class, will this be reflected in the original class that you passed?

depends how you alter the class

hmm

blindside, are you sure you're not referring to objects (instances of classes)?

hm in the java (not j2ee) perspective in the PACKAGE explorer I get the same thing as you do. but j2ee's project explorer doesn't have that.

blindside, in that case the answer is yes

yeah im refering to objects

by using methods on it yes…but changing reference no

created with "new"
what if I altered a public variable
directly

blindside, void manipulate(Person person) { person.setName("adam smith"); }
blindside, that will alter the original Person object, yes

i see
what about person.Name = "adam smith";

then I think no

hmm
thanks

the answer is yes

well it's very strange. guess I'll give up that handy project explorer to only use the Navigator which also has that feature.

all changes to the object will be seen in the original object

but it's plain stupid.

Is it possible to connect to an MS SQL database with the CrEme CDC JVM? I tried installing the MS JDBC driver but it needs java.util.logging which CrEme doesn't have ):

because they're, duh, the same

Are you sure, cause inside the objet person.Name = "adam smith"; will change reference to String Objets Name, which is a reference

Don't have j2ee view or perspective

i would bet my life on it
but go ahead, try it out

^^ let's proove me I'm wrong

ok, well thanks anyway

any of you guys developing hosting with java support apps on OSX?

~OSX

chnarr, I have no idea what OSX is.

point taken

Oh you mean Mas OS X
So what's the problem, assuming it's a linux like system
~tell Skaag about anyone

Skaag, Instead of asking whether anyone works with something you need help with, please save time by asking your actual question. If someone knows and wants/has time to help, perhaps he/she will.

I write to develop an application for mobile phones using Java
I want to
(bugger…)
I noticed the Wireless Toolkit is packaged for Windows and Linux exclusively
http://java.sun.com/products/sjwtoolkit/download-2_5_1.html

you know OS X is a linux like system…so try it…go ahead

giving it a try, it's downloading
I hope that .bin file will open fine

guess what, I just coded 3 JPanels for displaying tile based maps for games, a square one, a hexagon one and a diamond shaped one (like civII)
I'm still a long ways from displaying actual maps though
as it takes time to come up with images

you mean it takes time to create them?

yup

with a tool like gimp/photoshop?

with any tool
graphics takes time
art that is

true
are you planning to create a free game?

It possible to use a class with a toString() method in place of a string, but not possible to cast it to a string right?

not at the moment, only free game making tools

even without the toString() method, but I mean use in the sense of have it supply a useful value

I'm going to post these on my web site soon
as CPL

nice

I'd like to make some image editors to go with them

Skaag, did you think about emulating ?

one for hex/diamond/square
then to make map editors would also be cool

emulating what? A virtualized Linux?

yep
or look for .bin utils for OS X

it actually worked

aaahaa

that's nice
The plan is to create an app that uses the phone's bluetooth or wifi capabilities to communicate information with each other automatically

A sort of exams cheater …

hey that's a nice idea
but no.
ok check this out
java.io.FileNotFoundException: /users/skaag/workspace/wtk2.5.1/wtklib/Mac/ktools.properties (No such file or directory)
I just coped the Linux directory to Mac, and now it works
uI just coped the Linux directory to Mac, and now it works /u
what's wrong with my typing today… must be the 0.5L beer I had last night..!

hi

is 0.5L a lot ?
as beer is strong.?

for me I guess it is enough..?

don't fond excuses

I just had a Whienstephan
if that's how it's written

wtf

isn't it Weihenstephan?

something like that

If a pint of beer is still affecting you after a night sleep, you should probably see a doctor about a liver transplant ,)

I don't have a hangover

if i have a class that has only a member from String class, and i want to override equals and hashcode, for hashcode i return the string hashcode, and for equals (i return false for null and for object of different class) i return string.equalsIgnoreCase(string), this is not correct right?
because i can have 2 object equals but with different hashcode

depends your hashcode impl

if the member is String foo i return foo.hashCode()

hey guys, what is the pointer equivalent in java, I mean

i have to convert foo to lowercase or uppercase and then hashcode that string, i think

there is none

so don't do this, rather implement your hashCode, regardless to case

is there a difference between int myInt; and int myInt = new Integer();?

one is an object, the other is a primitive type?

yes there is, theorically, String foo = "some text"….then foo can be considered as the pointer

that is a reference.

ok, so to help c++ coders to undersdent, reference is to java what pointer is to c

i c
pun intended
:P

but it's bad to do this…just forget your pointers and co. background is better

ok, the line between a reference and non reference seems blurry
since theres no specific syntax to denote one..
hmm

just that you can't manipulate references arebitrarily

well all is referenced in java

what you mean r00t

right

you mean modifying the data containers directly??

you can't, like, add sometihing to a reference to make it point elsewhere, as you can with a pointer

when you do MyObj foo = new MyObj(some args) is like a maaloc

I am a bit confused by the numbers i am getting back from MemoryPoolMXBean, none of the memory usage values correspond to what my OS is telling me the jvm is using. How am i to use these values to be away of when my application approaches a certain memory usage limit?

when you doo foo=null; it's like a free()!

hey can someone join me in #applet

Erm. Not funny

foo2

tjats mpt a referemce
*thats not a reference
sorry keyboard is screwy

sorry…replace primitive by object instances

i see
but you can make a copy of a reference
by
myObject = new myObject(oldObject);
right

~enter

Blafasel, enter is not punctuation. Please don't press return until you've finished typing your question, it's annoying to see multiple lines for one question, and hard to follow.

woops
s/myObject/SomethingElse

copy of instance is proper…well right or also implement clone() method

sorry Ill stop using RETURN as punctuation

I don't care how you call it, just do it. Thank you

Hi I've setup an event so that when a user right clicks inside a JList a popup menu comes up at the mouses x and y coordinates…however where the popup comes visible is NOT where I right clicked … any ideas?

you get the wrong coordinates or your way of positioning the popup doesn't work.

Check if what you use are client coordinates

~next

Another satisfied customer. Next!

this is 3 lines so please don't stress:
if(evt.getButton() == evt.BUTTON3) {
RightPopup.setVisible(true);
RightPopup.setLocation(evt.getX(), evt.getY());

4 lines, but…

sorry

five now!

The same answer applies.

~snippets

Snippets too often lack vital information. Create a test case instead.

~test case

Provide complete, compilable Java SOURCE CODE that shows the problem and nothing else. Be as brief as possible. (See http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?364 for details and a HOWTO.)

what do you mean by client coordinates?

write a tiny program that demonstrates opening a popup at coordinates of your choice.
then dump it into one of the pastebins

~tell Bacta about javadoc MouseListener.getX()

Bacta, I don't know of any documentation for MouseListener.getX()

~pastebin

http://pastebin.stonekeep.com

Hmpf
Read the javadoc of this method

Woo! Hoo!

MouseInfo.getPointerInfo().getLocation().x; in AWT
seems to work

..

case of wrong coordinates, and a clutch solution. horrible.

Great. You do understand what you did wrong, right?

~next

Another satisfied customer. Next!

I mostly got my map panels working for displaying game tile maps

No

for (square/hex/diamond) shapes

I like that in IT everything is "mostly" working.

heh

aha. it's important to feel like making progress for me. else i lose interest even in my own little pet projects. i hope you'll be better self motivated than me.

I am if I'm making progress

didn't you read the javadoc for the Mouselistener.getX() method, as I told you?

Take special care when you encounter that magic word that made Einstein famous

Eureka?

its funny I tried this kind of thing back 7 years ago and it took me a month to get http://javaref.sourceforge.net/rpg.zip working, I just did 3 types of JPanels in one day, though I don't have a map viewer working yet for any of them

Wrong guy. That one was 2000+ years earlier. But I see that you aren't interested in the solution

that was Archimedes

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/29/0227251&from=rss

It was obviously not taking into account absolute coordinates

I mean the JPanels are the basic tools needed to plot the maps, the map plotting logic is yet to be coded

setLocation for the JPopupMenu is. .getX() from the MouseEvent doesn't return those, exactly. Quite easy to see by reading the docs of both methods (that makes about 10 lines of text, if you include the signature etc.)

can't he just make himself in a new release version.

wow that stil runs after 7 years
actually 5 years
I need to look for a hand held I guess

Hello
http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=3855
Somehow resizing the button doesn't really work?

du wirst dich ueber kurz oder lang mit layout management in java auseinandersetzen muessen, nuetzt alles nichts.
~layout

Clackwell, layout managers is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/index.html If the layout managers that come with the jdk dont satisfy you, have a look at FormLayout, TableLayout, PercentLayout or
HTMLLayout (ask me about each of those to learn more). Book chapter at http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?290

I don't speag German, I'm sorry o.o,

wahaha. ok. you won't get around reading up on layout management in java/swing. see javabot's information on that.

why the _HELL_ did you just speak german?
anyways, Clackwell, have a good morning

This is an English speaking channel.

Clackwell is a well respected member.
i believe

I WANT TO BELIEVE!
…

Can anyone provided me with some information on how to use javax.net.ssl.HttpsConnection?

did you check the javadoc page?
~javadoc javax.net.HttpsConnection(*)

I don't know of any documentation for javax.net.HttpsConnection(*)

~javadoc javax.net.ssl.HttpsConnection(*)

I don't know of any documentation for javax.net.ssl.HttpsConnection(*)

I assume the javadoc plugin is still broken?

nah

~javadoc Object.toString()

Blafasel, please see java.lang.Object.toString(): http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Object.html#toString()

Okay, fine

here's the java 6 javadoc page: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/HttpsURLConnection.html

~javadoc HttpsURLConnection

I don't know of any documentation for HttpsURLConnection

Hmm..

although it should be noted, that it is abstract and must be subclassed.
this might help you: http://commons.apache.org/httpclient/
good luck.

join ##java

:O

Been a while since I used irc
How are people doing?
I was wondering if anybody knew of any good custom SWT layouts?

is there any way to instantiate a type parameter?

{ … new Bar() … } doesn't work, but is there any workaround?

clazz)

then use that clazz later for the constructor. That (or variations of that) is the only way.

I see, thanks

What you can do is have nice static methods that work out what the type is based on the class you pass in, saves you repeating yourself 100 times which Java likes to make you do.

clazz) { return clazz.newInstance(); }

yes, sometimes you almost forget who is the human and who is the computer

I've seen a few good proposals on how to remove half the redundancy, but I doubt they'll find their way into Java 7
Anybody here use SWT much?
Guess not

morning

Howdy jottinger

morning joe

~tell JimmyA about swt

JimmyA, swt is the Standard Widget Toolkit - see http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/%7Echeckout%7E/platform-swt-home/main.html

~tell JimmyA about azureus

JimmyA, azureus is the other SWT app.

swt kinda sucks

It's really good in places, and horrible in others (layouts being one).
Thanks for that Cackwell, I'm working on a Java game http://sourceforge.net/projects/freelords and was trying to find a layout that lets you assign proportions for growth, e.g. this widget should grow into 20% and this should grow into
100%.

there is a nice article anbout why swt is a tricky choice compared to swing, but i have trouble locating at it the moment. maybe its url should be squeezed into that swt factoid, too.
and you use…swt?

Yup, for some time. I'm not necessarily convinced it was a better idea than Swing (especially for a game) but it seemed to work faster and look a little better.

faster…

Want to try and avoid writing a custom Layout if I can, or maybe I'll just settle for widgets either being fixed sized or growing as large as the can with no inbetween.

we'll probably keep hearing that for another decade.

Not trying to start a flamewar

agreed about writing a custom layout.
me neither, just venting about the resistance of myths and misunderstandings in the java world.

Well I did both a SWT and a Swing POC early on, and for the pop up dialogs SWT was faster, not sure about in general use. Maybe it was just until JIT kicked in.

yeah, the consequences of naive performance testing ;(
but your stuff is open source, i am sure someone in the community will write a swing port

you're welcome to naive or not, it's the first thing that the user experiences. I do much prefer native widgets, but I hear swing has done a lot of work in that area lately.

"Advocates from both sides consider their opponents to be of questionable parentage." - http://www.hacknot.info/hacknot/action/showEntry?eid=74

just for the record.. swt and Qt (KDE) make a horrible experience
no native support there

for whome?

user

That sounds like something Hitler would say!

that was the article, might want to read it

i wished swt would use Qt bindings… but it does not unfortunately

with java 6 swing works really good and fast. See big Swing app like Limewire running in java 6. Just huge app like eclipse need SWT.

swing gets points for its smalltalk heritage, swt gets points for being an IBM creation for those who can't figure out Swing

how about netbeans? IDEA?

and Eclipse doesn't need SWT either

I thougt swing was originally developed by IBM as well?

it uses SWT out of momentum, not need
no

no to what?

Not feeling the SWT love here , I've done plenty of stuff in Swing, but back in the days when it really did look pretty horrid.

no, IBM didn't create Swing

razzledazzle

yeah, I understand, anyhow I see eclipse a bit more responsive than netbeans. Just a bit, even with visual editors and many plugins.

Swing was what AWT was supposed to be, but it took too long to write
yes, that means SWT is better. /sarcasm

definitive proof that swt is faster than swing.
case closed.
is that a beard? you are a terrorist. please hand yourself over to the police.
case closed.

yeah, it's faster, but nobody will notice it with new computers

"My pinto outran a porsche on the road one day! Therefore, pintos are faster than porsche."
moore's law is dead, BTW
dual-core CPUs are killing it

drawing conclusions is so easy once you disregard accuracy.

well, accuracy's overrated.
just ask the US government. Or the US media.

What happened to my lack of flamewar?

damn you, swt fanboy!
there, happy?

this isn't flamery, it's mockery.

just marketing.. we could have 300-core processors right now.

we could have 1 billion core processors.
just scientific and practical progress prevented it so far.

I think we've driven off the Ruby Rails somewhere along the line here

but that doesn't change the assertion that moore's law is dead
ruby's pretty nice.

i could have green hair.

Jostein:

thus, moore's law is alive and well!

why the heck put your damn barking dog into the garden at 1 pm? i don't understand some people. grr.

But as they say, the free ride is over.
2 cats here, hard to type with one constantly running over my keyboard

and then there is the neighbour with teh constantly open windows who smokes a lot. of course that smoke gets into this place…very sexy when sitting in the kitchen, eating. or when having fun with your gf in the bedroom ;
give it a push. we all need a push from time to time.

But she's so cute just like SWT. I'll settle for GridLayout for now, use XML files to describe layout (but not code), and changing the UI would be very easy in future

there are layout managers that allow to describe a layout in xml already. maybe you can use one of those.

Am using XLayout for SWT, but it has a few shortcommings

(not that i think xml helps any, or describing a horrible layout management with gridlayout or one of the other layout horror managers in java in something else than code. it's still the same, counter intuitive layout horror.)
sometimes it seems that people talking about xml in this area have identified the wrong problem. to me the layout logic of the included layout managers is what is broken, not wether i describe their use with code or xml or plain text of another format.

I would have to disagree there, as long as the XML is just used to lay out, and all the listeners / fine tuning is done in code. In the same way you can look at xHTML and get a general idea of the layout.
I suppose there's always the Mig Layout, sounds like what you'd suggest.

but the layout mechanisms in xhtml are more intuitive even to me, as opposed to the layout mechanisms offered by the various layout managers included in the jdk.
to me it is most important that the layout mechanism is easy to understand and use. if i have to ask "how do i realize this and that layout" chances are that the layout manager isn't any good.-

etc.

and you keep getting these requests in here.
maybe we do.

You seen the GridBagLayout flash animation?

no, link me please

~gbl

Clackwell, gridbaglayout is a very powerful layout manager that allows precise control of component resizing. Tutorial http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/gridbag.html. a great helper class to
set the constraints can be found here: http://papernapkin.org/examples/GBConstraints.java

~gblfun

Clackwell, I have no idea what gblfun is.

~gridbaglayout

Clackwell, gridbaglayout is a very powerful layout manager that allows precise control of component resizing. Tutorial http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/gridbag.html. a great helper class to
set the constraints can be found here: http://papernapkin.org/examples/GBConstraints.java

sigh

http://madbean.com/anim/totallygridbag/

yep, that's the one

Bah.
Reading the javadocs helps.

of course, you'll have the purists at your throat, which will shout that a) xhtml is total crap, and b) table based layout management logic is teh evil
they'll rather use a more complicated but "cleaner" tool i guess. good thing there's choice.

All layout management logic is teh evil Better not tell them I use a Mac either (though I admit I'm always stuck in the Java dark ages as a result).

~evil

only morons use the word "evil" to refer programming practices, IDEs, etc.

*grin*

Eh, javabot never used PowerJ with managed code then.

I think people would stop using that factoid if they saw some of my code.

i'd say that's extremely probable

Not at all. We still use evil on conjunction with individuals
s/on/in/

Ha

~PowerJ

JimmyA, I have no idea what PowerJ is.

~wlfshmn++

wlfshmn has a karma level of 7, DRMacIver

Yup, he never has
Anybody have any non UI stuff to talk about?

see you later

Guinea pigs are neither pigs, nor from Guinea. Discuss

But they still are tasty
have fun

What does "extension class" mean ?
~extension class

I guess the factoid 'changing runtime classpath' might be appropriate:
chnarr, changing runtime classpath is http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=32&thread=300557&message=1961099

thats not what I expect
The tool supports JAX-RPC complex types (bean classes), extension classes, enumeration classes, arrays and Holder classes.
so what does it mean here ?
(from Axis User guide)

~tell chnarr about extend

chnarr, I guess the factoid 'extends evil' might be appropriate:
chnarr, extends evil is an article by Allen Holub who tries to present arguments for the keyword 'extends' being of no value. Unfortunately, he does a poor job of presenting the facts http://www.tmorris.net/pubs/extends-not-evil/

oh crap.
~tell chnarr about inheritance

chnarr, inheritance is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/concepts/inheritance.html , http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/subclass.html and http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/names.html#104101

lol

there ya go

inheritance is what your children get when you die
leave it at that

not for OOP

Well , ok, but I think Apache Axis is not very explicit, should be explained a little further, because, I know that the actually extension class should also be a support type, recrsivly, which is not told…
*recursivly
does somebody agree with this ?

Hmm.. After all that "Is IntelliJ worth the money" talk: Any opinions on the MyEclipse stuff? I mean: Are they really enhancing the platform enough to charge their fee?

i assume extension class means a class that extends a super class am I right?

right
lets assume this
or maybe the superclass which is extended by… :p

I've found Eclipse with a few plugins fine for my work. We're the developers of the no 1 web software for retirement investments in Australia.
Granted we bought out all the competition.

I'm an Eclipse user myself, so I'm not asking about "Does Eclipse work", but more about: Did anyone pay for the MyEclipse edition and can share some experiences

ahh, and nope. We thought about getting my eclipse, but between what 3.3 web developer offers and Red Hat's upcomming JBoss plugin replacement we decided there wasn't a need. Still, considering I never used it can't say for certain, sorry.

I personally like IDEA, but lately it's been acting up for me; I think a plugin i installed is breaking it.

I don't like it, all these tools makes you too IDE dependent, so I prefer using some advanced scripting tools, like ant tasks, and even better maven through plugins
Do you know about Maven ?
~maven

chnarr, maven is a build tool similar to ant based on the idea of a project object model (POM). See http://maven.apache.org/ for details
chnarr, maven is a build tool similar to ant based on the idea of a project object model (POM). See a href="http://maven.apache.org/"http://maven.apache.org//a for details

how do i select a particular value in a select list based on the value string from php

`html applet

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#edef-APPLET

hey people how is the simplest way to add a totally transparent border arround images, so that you can separate them just bu a copuple of pixels?

hi all

hi

ajrion try margin
`css margin

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-margin

TomyLobo, thanks .. like in the image tag i put margin="2" ?

for grouping elements to be on the same line?

ajrion it's css, not html

TomyLobo, thanks again

hi
how do I set up a div on the top of the page.. i.e. when I'm making a div, it leaves some padding on the top and even if I do padding-top: 0; it doesn't help

#css
and margin:0;
on body

ok, that dit it
thanks

hi I have a div element I need to have custom borders around. Whats a good way to add borders to it with custom graphics? As in, pictures for the 4 corners and the 4 walls.

and anyway, anyone mind telling me (in pm) why my site sucks..?
(as strange as it sounds)

Is there a html tag that cancels the rendering of tags within it?

You don't use html to manipulate rendering. You use CSS. And yes, there's a CSS property to do that. display:none;

thank you

wow
all these fancy words
for html
rendering
haha
that was funny

I need help. How can i put a horizontal or vertical line EXACTLY where i i want it without any text involved?

exactly being?

wng_z3ro ok say i have a basic page. and background image and a upload your images online thats 300 in hieght and 350 in width and located on the top right corner of the page.thats it no text or anyhting yet. how do i get a line right under the image?

use div
and css

so i should use css and not html?

well it involves both
but css is better for layouts
(usually)

ok i should look into that.that give you better control on exactly where you want things?

one of the main reasons is that if all of your web pages use the same css file, it only has to be downloaded once
yup

ah thats nice

if you want to 'cheat', you can try using tables

ah,like breaking the page up in sections?

it's easier to get started with, but css should be better for you in the long run
yup

i c

as well

cuts off the rest of the page and kinda starts it from there is what your saying?

ya kinda

hm, i tried using it, but where do i put it so i get it to a certain section of the page

ok
for example, this is how my page is set up
body
div id="banner"
a href="/" target="_top"img src="/img/banner.jpg" alt="logo" style="border-style: none;"//a
/div

ok i will see how this works

and in my style.css, I have this:
#banner {
background-color: white;
border: 0px;
height: 100px;
width: 100%;
overflow: hidden;
vertical-align: top;
clear: both;
}

wow little advanced for me , anyway thanks for the advice. i think im going to start learning css

here's the webpage I learned from:
http://www.w3schools.com/
there's also a #css channel if you need it

thats where im at but looking at the borders in css, it still looks like you have to have some kind of text for where your line will go

just set your div to have a certain width
and height
and then do a border-bottom:
on the div

ah ok, thats html or css, the div?
i also was justin looking at margin

is html

the attributes that modify it are css
like border-bottom etc

is essentially a container

ah ok i will check out div

cellspacing is effecting the spacing all around a cell… can i just change the left/right spacing?

no

to do that

but i really want this to be a table

can you put images in a table?

in css.?

no

html

sorry i dont understand

oh nvm
misread your question
yes you can position hr

inplace of text? how bout an image?

1 sec

kk

its right?

for paragraph?

for div.container p

so what do you want to do?

tag?

CSS entry - div.container p
i have some text which needs to use that CSS

zerokill, you can do this:

tag, because i have image in the top right corner of my page and would like an line right under it seperating it from the text i am going to right below it

hr{
margin-left: 10%;
}
or what not

in css style?

yup

ok, but why margin-left? i want it to go left and right

that will pad it 10%

horizontal

from wherever it starts
etc

ok

if you want to move the whole thing to a fixed location, you can put it inside a div
div width something, height somethinghr/div

ok thanks. its all new to me so thanks alot

np

anyway my time is up for now, have to go visit family, anyway thanks alot for the help

cya later

hopefully i will see you around
later

sup eth01

hi
so should i put it in a div?
http://spookedout.org/devel
wrong one
http://spookedout.org/

put what in a div

the paragraph of text

do you need to?
it probably would'nt hurt
that way it would be easy to modify your text later
div id="mainText" or whatever
then you could just change your css and globally modify your page

meh!
it's got a php templating system
so im being a slow, sorry.

k

arghh

Hello.
HTML question.
I'm working on a very complex website with tons of frames… FuSE helped me with it last night.
Let's say I have a cell in a table, 23×23 pixels, with a 23×23 image set as the background of the cell.
Is there any way that I can make a part of that image be an image map?

http://biagi.miniville.fr

Hey, I need some advice about which elements to use for a little task
most of it is on http://musicbrainz.org/artist/aa47ca2e-a20c-4e5e-a564-bdedb48e9940.html
Firsly, the top bit "Calyx composed, Calyx collaborated on" - do you think a definition list is suitable there?

hi

is this valid?
tabletrformtd.. form elements here../tdtd.. more form elements here ../td/form/tr/table

;google quirksmode clearing floats

http://www.quirksmode.org/css/clearing.html

hi folks, I'm having some issues with META Cache control. I would like for cache to only work when I visit the site. However, when I close my browser, and open the website again, it pulls the newest page which is fine. The issue is
The issue is that, when I am on the site, it doesn't cache the link that I clicked anymore. I used no-cache, must-revalidate and expires

Hi I have a problem, when a dog barks it sounds like a bark, which isn't a problem, the problem is…
:p

read the latter

I'd ask #web

ok
I was actually asking what I should remove from my code
thanks, i'll try #web

remove the meta tag
if you want it cached, what's the necessity for it?

doc, I need the tag
but maybe, there is an option
here is the issue again

if you remove it, it will cache as per your browsers settings

when I put a new swf file, the browser still loads the old swf file
so, I would like the browser to force to reload the swf file during the first load
check the site I built
http://restricted.dyndns.org/orcfinal/
click on gallery
then click on any of the 8 icons
then click the same icon that you just clicked. The progress bar will reload it again
That's the one I would like to skip. Previously, when I had no META tag, it was working but the problem is that, when I put a new swf file, my browser still loads the old one

what is better, to pass ä, ö and ü and other "special chars" as entities or leave them like they are?

leave them, send encoding in headers via server
if you're using Apache, #apache can tell you how
and if you're using a server side scripting language a lot, you can probably use that, too

i know how to send encoding headers
just had some troubles using python together with those special entities in utf-8
but i'll find out
so it's more correct to send them as they are
thx for the information

I assume python has provisions for easily escaping them, if they're an issue

there is cgi.escape
but it just escapes > &lt& and &
<
sorry for the typo

surely there's a way to do it in a more block-style
or \char

hi!
You know how on logins where you type your password, and its ****, how do I get that?

input type="password"

Nanobot it isn't a password though, i'm makign liek a guessing game for two players

type="password" will give you the *** things

Nanobot thanks

???

is #0a0 equivalent to #00aa00 or #00a000 ?

#00aa00

thx

hello. how do I separate the page into 2 or 3 sections? with links being on the left (and perhaps right), and content in the middle?
the way most pages look like

shadow-, google `3 column css layout

how to make a news text scroll up all the time?
i want it to move

hu
hi*
input type="radio" name="userdirectory"
input type="radio" name="publicdirectory"
when the user chooses one of those, the other is can still be picked, I only want the user to choose one, what should I do?

asbo I don't google. give me the link, bitch

maybe you should start googling

I'm confused, are you guys talking to me?

i was talking to shadow-

oh
well can you help me?

you really need to learn the basics

I'm not good with forms, that's it.
can you please just tell me what to do?

`schools @ gat-man

gat-man, schools: Explore the intricacies of HTML and CSS here: www.blooberry.com/ , www.htmlhelp.com/ , http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ , www.brainjar.com/ , www.htmldog.com/ , http://css.maxdesign.com.au/

or CSS. Since they are mostly presentational…why are they allowed on HTML 4.01 Strict?

are there any unofficial awards for making a semi stylish webpage without using ?
bare there any unofficial awards for making a semi stylish webpage without using ?/b
hah
I just wanted to know if it was common enough or not.

not anymore than the Olympics game of Seniors cane-fighting with one hand, while try to hold a chicken on the other hand, standing on one leg, and singing Chuck Berry's tunes

In other words, decent pages without aren't that common at all.

there might be one I dunno of, who knows
depends on the content

I just helped make one for a place I used to help out.
It's not ready yet for public view, but the close workers liked it.

some contents need , some don't

tag a makeshaft dialog

Also… .htm vs .html Which do you recommend?

heeh
html
not sure if html5? and forward go together

not for everything, I will admit

gave me ideas.

http://www.presentationhss.com/awards/aawm.gif
.. dialog

+html

http://www.webreference.com/js/tutorial1/dialog.html

;google "dialog" +html5

http://blog.empyree.org/post/3049

tag?

is

for the speech.

Use that the entire way for an effective transcript

no, real code. Pastebin your whole page.

It if for work. Unless I recode it using generic terms, I can't show it

then we can't help you. It's no big deal to make a simple testcase. And actually, while creating your test case, you'll probably figure out the problem anyway

I have done that before flannel
But it will take up some time

That's fine, we've got time.

lol
*sigh*
Here goes….

anyone have the mini 7 font?

damn
this is going to take too long

Is there a trick to getting to wrap properly in a div?

Trick? It should already wrap

www.arcsupprot.ca/blog/portfolio.php
www.arcsupport.ca/blog/portfolio.php — sorry typo

ok
I think I am done
just a sec while I put this in Pastebin…

i have a containing block holding a float and a block, how do i get the container to reach the lowest point of the child block? it works in ie but not ff
auto to the containing block then it works in ff but not ie

Ok here is my code/page…
http://paste.css-standards.org/23031
Anyone around?
hello?

hi
no.

?

I do php not css
well, im learning css :/

Damn

whatcha trying to do?

How much CSS do you know?

a bit
enough to get by

hmm

Is there a way to have both a background image and a background color on a div? Like declare both in 1 class?

yes

….
I placed 3 paragraphs with classes inside of a div with a class

shoot
ok

I want #main to have a border-bottom:1px solid #bababa but no matter what I do I can't get the border to show up. (I'm looking at this in firefox, don't know about other browsers) http://pastebin.com/m1a8c3618

I want to make the backgrounds of those 3 paragraphs different than the body background
But the background of the 3 paragraphs will NOT change

http://paste.css-standards.org/ paste it here

They stay the color of the body
nyture, i just did
http://paste.css-standards.org/23031

Is there a way to declare both a background web hosting for online images and background color on a single div?

ok for paragraph 1 whats the class name
yes

Nyture, p1

but whay attacus

Ok, waitin sorryt.

..p1{ background: #009CFF !important; } try that
*why
no wait
*not

Nyture, tried that

sorry my keyboard aint the greatest
too many coffee spills
didnt work?

no

just do something like .myclass { background: #ccc url('myimg.png') no-repeat 50% 50%; }

thanks
Thanks Nyture.
Errr super.

lol

supergreg, do you need the ' ' around the image url?

yes

really?

yes

I don't have that in my code

it makes it work in more browsers, nappysis

makes the code easier to read for a browser

including IE?

yes

ok I will try that later
supergreg, have you seen my code?
:_(

j/k… but seriously, its 5 a.m… need sleep

ok
Well then good night

well now i feel worthless :/

lol
don't feel that way

so ur problem is fixed eh'?

nope

I want #main to have a border-bottom:1px solid #bababa but no matter what I do I can't get the border to show up. (I'm looking at this in firefox, don't know about other browsers) http://pastebin.com/m1a8c3618

geez
Where is everyone?

sleeping

Everytime when I have nothing to say, this place is bustling

dude its 10 PM central

It is only 11 PM here

you need to check your markup, the p1, p2 and p3 paragraphs are all empty.

???

lol

p class="p3"ullilink11/li/ul

yeah
there is text there

nappysis try .p1 ul li {background: #blah; }

Nyture that will just change the line

why would you need a paragraph around that ul anyways? just give each ul a class.

pffft FINE THEN

lol Nyture
supergreg, you can do that?

*boots up uber program HOMESITE*
gimme a few minutes
my computer is ancient

ul class="p1"lilink9/li/ul

goto sleep supergreg
what he said lol

ok supergreg

or just put the class on each li and keep it all in the same ul, IMO a lot cleaner

what he (supergreg) said

ah ok
thanks supergreg

]listamatic @ nappysis

listamatic: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

good night all

night!@

I have a weird text-align: right issue in IE when combined with white-space: nowrap; Every other browser gets this right, but IE (7 even) adds mysterious spacing and mis-aligns things. Does anyone know why? (http://www.stchur.com/personal/ie_right_align.html)

nappysis ulli class="p1"page 1/lili class="p2"page 2/lili class="p3"page 3/li/ul
hey nappysis, do you have the mini 7 font?

nope

damn

sorry

np

hmm
well now I got the color to show up behind the unordered lists, but the bulllets disappear when I get rid of the margins.

okay so i reduced most of my my validation errors from 831 to 33 on http://getgreensnow.net , i cant seem to get that last few but that doesnt bother me. what bothers me is in FF: the center content isnt centered. and in IE (the whole layout is bambozzled where the content should be - can anyone help me out?

*shrugs*

Anyone?

you ever get that figured out?

Can anyone help me out with my predicament?

and don't use font

Also, Most of your s shouldn't be there either
If not all of them

That wouldnt solve the problem however
Which is mainly what I'm looking for.

How do you know that doesn't solve your problem?

How would a break effect horizontal space?

Obviously your issue is with the centering behavior of the stuff in center, so yes, that would change it.
it wouldn't. The BRs are just evidence of crappy code.

It's included - all I created was a layout and formed it to template files where it was then filled in. I don't have say over the breaks however I do have say over most template items including the issue with the IE incompatibility and the FF problem. I didn't program it so I'm not taking blame for incompotence.

Right. Like I said, get rid of fonts and centers

hello, i'm having an issue with my page rendering improperly in ie6. i have narrowed the problem down to the display: line in my stylesheet for my navlinks div though i am unsure on how to proceed after a google search for ie6 and display: inline and css returned nothing of pertinence. please assist. the webpage is at: http://65.30.129.23/utl/ thanks!

which lines are we talking about? what should i replace the center with?

All the lines with center and fonts. Replace it with CSS.

Well thats what I was kinf od asking, what is a suitable replacement for center

depends on what you're centering. Either automargins or text-align: center
]center

http://www.zoffix.com/css/center.pl , http://dorward.me.uk/www/centre/

Looks identical in IE6, except you can't click the links, is that what you were referring to?

precisely

Is there a way to get the background color of the uls to go behind the bullets and have no margin space between them??
http://paste.css-standards.org/23036

it's because (if you break out your DOM inspector) the paragraph (#today) is overtop of them

If I was centering the content, what would you use 0 automargins or text-align?

what sort of content is it? inline? then text-align

kk

what's a good dom inspector? sounds like a tool i need onhand

for FF, you obviously get the FF dom inspector. For IE,
]ie webdev

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=e59c3964-672d-4511-bb3e-2d5e1db91038&displaylang=en

thank you very much

once you take a look, you'll see exactly what Im talking about. No problem.

Is there a way to get the background color of the uls to go behind the bullets and have no margin space between them??
http://paste.css-standards.org/23036

dont know

try list-style-position
if that doesn't work to your satisfaction, you'll need to use a background image for your bullets

ok
list-style-position?
how does that work?

]css list-style-position

css list-style-position: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style-position

i just can not get this
any idea?
it seems to be just this index page with the problem that has the problem in IE and FF all other pages look fine
so it has something to do with the content I'm using
you alive?

*sigh*
ok

hi guys, can anyone see this page? - http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example.html
I don't understand why the link is coming up blank
http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/test.html works, but http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example/html doesn't
oh hang n
fixed
wrong doctype
doh!

I see how to get the background color to go behind the bullets, and how to get of the margins, but how do you get the height of the uls to be even and reach the bottom of the page?
http://paste.css-standards.org/23037
and lol daggi

well, that's one problem down
now I need to work out why the layout is still screwy

Anyone awake?
hello?

i've moved the "today" div's margins to outside the area of the navlinks ul and the links are still inaccessible in ie6. any ideas?
the dom inspector is tight

?help
..help
help
can this be implemented without js? http://phrogz.net/JS/Tabtastic/index.html
i can't google the right terms, i kept googling css tabs but i get navigation tabs always

see you all later

is it possible to do CSS inheritance?
ie, I have a common table entry in CSS and for a certain form I want to inherit that and change a few options

DOMtab control-tabs fabtabulous
which one

Hey all, is it possible to position 2 div elements on top of eachother, relative to the screensize?

hi all

hi
this code is not working on firefox
span style="FILTER: Glow(Color=#ff0000, Strength=8); width:200px;font-size:20pt;"Glow Filter/span

That's because Firefox does not support filter. It's MSIE-only.

can u give some solution for bluring text through css
that wok on firefox & ie

There isn't suitable solution for bluring text right now… I guess, you should use images instead…

thnks
i want to handle dynamic data with background image with text effect css to blur so plz give me any solution

could someone tell me why opera differs from IE + FF renderings of http://69.254.26.158/dru1
so i see these people looking at my site and im curious who they are

if I want to change the bullet point colour in a list, I have to use a custom image, right?

nah, ul {color: #xxxxxx } should do the trick
or ol, or li
one of those

text in a span li { color: #fff; } li span {color: your text color}

bunny_RSI, image host is better since that does not require an extra element. Then use background on li instead
]css bullets @ bunny_RSI

Cross-browser image bullets: http://darrenfauth.com/css-sandbox/css-list-cross-browser.php

Is it possible to mix "text-content" with an img? atm I have content:url(/img/myImg.gif); What I want is something like: content: "myText"url(/img/myImg.gif);
Is this possible?

background

Doeas anyone have som good links on CSS vs Tables? I'm facing some stiff oppisition.

bloopletech, what's a "CSS vs Tables"?

Essentiolly explaining why tables for layout are bad, etc.
Excluding the seybold page

did you search google?

bloopletech, eh… people still argue about that?

anyone care to lend their eyes to a problem with ie6 and my webpage?
essentially, two elements overlap, and the one underneath is a group of hyperlinks
and since they're beneath the other element, the hyperlinks cannot be clicked -.-
http://65.30.129.23/utl/

bloopletech, tables were designed for tabular data. CSS was designed for styling media-targeted content. What's there to argue about? Maybe you should argue about why use Perl instead of ASM for your CGIs
_uplinkd_, does it work in standards compliant browsers?

works fine in ie7, firefox, opera and safari
in both win and *nix environments

_uplinkd_, give {position: relative;} to your links

thx Zoffix

omg, thx Zoffix!

hi guys - IE breaks this floating layout, but firefox and safari display it a-okay - http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example.html
hi guys - IE breaks this floating layout, but firefox and safari display it a-okay - a href="http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example.html"http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example.html/a
anyone here know how I can get the floats to align like how they do in the other, 'good' browsers?

]argue @ bloopletech

"Arguing on the Internet is like running in the special Olympics… even if you win, you're still retarded" http://xrl.us/3veh

@

(stage.chrisad…) HTML: Failed (1 error, see http://tinyurl.com/2pwnt7 ) | CSS: Valid [50 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/ypcvf2 ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.1 + url | (MIME: text/html; charset=UTF-8)

what does giving position: relative do to the links that they're now in the forefront?

do er……… "conditional selectors" exist? (sure it's a bad way of describing what I want).

_uplinkd_, establishes new stacking context.

ie, I have half a dozen pages which use the same styles, but only the colours change
so I'd like to write a list of rules for them

bunny_RSI, and how will the browser know what colors to use?

but for the moment, it means I need to add .page-id-xx in front of each selector
I have a dozen selectors
so for each page, I need to go through the list of css rules and not only change the colours, but also the selectors

Zoffix - at last!

I'd love to be able to do

hidden; trick for two-col layout you told me about, Zoffix?

..page-id-xx { h2 {color: zzz} h3 {color: yyy}
}
something like that.
but I don't think it's possible in CSS, right?

right

or a kind of "this set of rules is just for .page-id-xx"
warning I can place at the top of a list of rules

http://paste.css-standards.org/23056/view — doesn't work in IE - so I'll have to use left margin after all?

oooh
*idea
3
*
can I use @import somewhere here?
like
..page-id-xx { @import(the rules)}
?

no

ah, too bad.
well, copy paste and search and replace, then.

]h @ Ace_NoOne

IE hasLayout: http://haslayout.net/haslayout

oh
of course D:
you still got the example link for this layout?

Ace_NoOne, http://zoffix.com/new/
bunny_RSI, …or just run a regex

ahh cool - cheers Zoffix

thanks again Zoffix

) and drop them into one file

hi peeps

Ok, i know text areas have to have columns, but what if i want the width to be 100%?

you mean TEXTAREA elements (edit boxes)?
width works fine for me there

Er, yes, my bad

MACscr, then you set width 100%

Im getting the error that cols needs to be specificed

MACscr, yes
MACscr, textarea cols="40" rows="15"

Ha, ok. Just thought it was odd to put the number of cols if i was going to do 100% width, but it worked. Should have tried that before asking

how *does* this cols/rows stuff factor in? I don't assume it's translated into styles internally (thus factoring into the cascade as inline styles)?

Ace_NoOne, it's not CSS

can you run ie 6 and ie 7 on the same computer?

wanderingii, yes

yes, but … well, what is it

Ace_NoOne, HTML

internally, how do browsers handle HTML vs. CSS "assignments"? CSS always takes precedence?

yes

good to know

does anyone know why my background appears ok in ie7 but not in ff for http://aidan.homelinux.com/Websites/cana/

(I never use html hosting style thingies, so I wouldn't know what the reaction is)

@

(aidan.homelin…) HTML: Tentatively Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2fl862 ) | CSS: Valid [13 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/3235ho ) | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Strict + url | (MIME: text/html)

also if i include the footer, it shoots up to the top and sits behind the two main sections

wanderingii, #webpage { overflow: hidden;}
]clear @ wanderingii

Contain floats: http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 , www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

thanks zoffix. thats fixes the white background bit but not the footer, takin a look at them links now.

wanderingii, #footer{clear: both}
]float tutorial @ wanderingii

float tutorial: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ , http://phrogz.net/css/understandingfloats.html

thanks, is there any way of knowing them wee ]… lines you type to get links to help, so that i dont have to keep askin?

http://xrl.us/wcdx

one other thing, is there any way to stop a page from jumping left slightly when scrollbars exist on the page, you can see this on my link when clickin the home and about pages

Why do you care about that?

i just think its annoying

I wonder how many users will click your home and about links back and forth 100 times to actually notice anything

see for the contact page, how come the form is centered in ie but not in ff

wanderingii, because you have no clue how to center stuff.
wanderingii, .fields { margin: 0 auto;}
]z center @ wanderingii

CSS Horizontal Centering: http://www.zoffix.com/css/center.pl

thanks

hmm
where can I fund a bunch of good CSS designs for inspiration / to learn from?

The internet?
The world outsite?
outside* heh

OSWD or something
forgot what it's called

Just wondering if you could recommend one. I had a good collection but have since lost it

not sure if it's worth anything iether

No, they're horrible.

good to know

stylegala? cssbeauty? csszengarden

]layouts @ hyphenex

Examples with proper markup and CSS: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts , http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/ , http://glish.com/css/ , http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ , http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/

glish is old-school
And they're layouts, not necessarily good design

sometimes i feel like some of websites pay to get on galleries like css beauty
i'd say most of the designs are amazing but then a few are like, wtf?

Thanks!!

lame
lame lame lame lame
zomg… i r just see a bunch of lame lamers showing lameness with lame methods pretending they made something next century
perlbot, lame

too much coffee?

Not ENOUGHt!#

hah

## pot is about to boil
perlbot, lame is lame lame lame lame lame lame lame I R LAME

added lame to the database

perlbot, f00li5h

come and live with f00li5h, he's friendly, and not too bad at perl. see also: f00li5h.pin21.com/flat.html

lawl

meow

]purr @ f00li5h

meow

Haha.

*sigh* why does it always happen that I need to go to work when I want to go to bed?
perlbot, be Multiply

WHY USE PEARL!? C IS FASTAR?!?!?

ZOMG!

lol
I assume that overflow: hidden; trick works in all major browsers? (saves me the trouble of testing)

if I paste any url into this channel does the zogbot automatically run validation tests?
zofbot

no

http://stage.chrisadams.me.uk/blueprint/example.html - this page uses the blueprint framework, but I'm trying to adjust it so that IE 6 displays it how all the other browsers do

@0

(stage.chrisad…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2pwnt7 ) | CSS: Valid [50 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/ypcvf2 ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.1 + url | (MIME: text/html; charset=UTF-8)
(stage.chrisad…) HTML: Valid ( a href="http://tinyurl.com/2pwnt7"http://tinyurl.com/2pwnt7/a ) | CSS: Valid [50 warnings] ( a href="http://tinyurl.com/ypcvf2"http://tinyurl.com/ypcvf2/a ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.1 + url | (MIME: text/html; charset=UTF-8)

Hi. I've defined the width for a box in a table but it looks like Firefox doesn't know this..
IE does however..
Can anyone help me with that ?

no

ok

Lol
Is it tabular data?

Everything is tabular data

persmission to slap you?
*permission D:

how do you stop the bullets from appearing?

Ace_NoOne, prove me wrong
wanderingii, ul { list-style: none; }
]listamatic @ wanderingii

listamatic: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

If I correct my question and say that i've defined the width for a class in my .css file made my box a member of that class. My box contains a text link and firefox just adjusts the width of the box to the length of the text.
would you then help me ?

Link

It's a file on my computer.. i can post my css file on a pastebin.

]paste

http://paste.css-standards.org , http://www.webdevout.net/test , http://erxz.com/pb/ , http://sial.org/pbot/ , http://tnx.nl/scribble.plp , Upload images: http://oxihosting.com/pupload/

http://paste.css-standards.org/23060

I hate my ISP…
I'm getting timeouts when browing constantly.
It's a wonder I'm not disconnected from IRC.

know the feeling

I can't access the link, sorry.

Multiply, running torrents, eh?

It'll take like 10 minutes.
I'm not downloading anything.
And if I were, it'd be torrents.

np

Without setting the width, how can i get a drop down menu to have plenty of room on the right side. The little drop down arrow keeps overlapping

Margin.
Or Padding

200px directive here?: http://paste.css-standards.org/22997

On the option?
Or the select

MrKeuner, Opera has a hueristic parser.. it breaks on purpose when sees crap code.;

why would you call this code crap?

Because it is?

Zoffix xD

I would have to agree with Zoffix

YOU MUST COMPLY!

how old are you guys

MrKeuner, what does age have to do with this?

you would know if you were old enough

Old enough for?

Multiply, for having a tabled-mentology
MrKeuner, now, I know you are old as hell and been [ab]using tables and spans etc. to no avail. But today is 2007 and if you want to get any help in this channel you will have to present a standards compliant, semantic code.
MrKeuner, now, I know you are old as hell and been [ab]using tables and spans etc. to no avail. But today is 2007 and if you want to get any help in this channel you will have to present a standards compliant, semantic code.

so table is the problem

No, your code in general.

@http://juhp.dk/ls

(juhp.dk/ls) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2oc6wa ) | CSS: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/29b6xq ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Strict + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html;charset=iso-8859-1)

Blabber

bad
Not “crap''… just bad.

@http://www.fashionpatrons.de/english/about/

(www.fashionpa…) HTML: Failed (1 error, see http://tinyurl.com/39nlo6 ) | CSS: Failed (10 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/26fblv ) [31 warnings] | 3 non-whitespace chars found before doctype DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Strict + url | (MIME: text/html)

PWND

ack
I missed the fun
damn duties

@http://haslayout.net

(haslayout.net) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2e9jmw ) | CSS: Valid [134 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/3d4xc2 ) | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Strict + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

aaahhh just been stung by a wasp ]

wanderingii, LOL
perlbot, be wanderingii

Hi, can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??
uHi, can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??/u

rofl
hidden; thing for floated cols, does it work cross-browser (if you take care of hasLayout)

Ace_NoOne, TIAS!

I don't have Opera or Konqueror or Safari to test here
]abbr TIAS

TIAS == Try It And See

I don't have Opera or Konqueror or Safari to test here

Oh, yes! And I do

well, you recommended it
so I thought you'd know

I recommended shit

you always do ;P

Ace_NoOne, Stop crediting me for everything you do.

hehe

lol wtf - you told me I could use that instead of left margin

Ace_NoOne, I just showed how floats behave according to specs.. you are already yelling that I recommend something

bah semantics

Ace_NoOne, I showed how to position element to the bottom of another element you are already yelling that it is "Zoffix' footer method"
Get off my back

I could also assing a unique ID to every method, but that wouldn't be newbie friendly
uI could also assing a unique ID to every method, but that wouldn't be newbie friendly/u

what am i supposed to use instead of target=_blank
since that gives me a validation error

target="_blank"

no
JS, since it's behavior
at least in XHTML

THERE IS NO ATTRIBUTE TARGET

this the JS
*thus

+

oh ok
js seems a little overboard for something like this

I kinda hate that too sometimes
but that's the way it is

yeah

should only be as large as necessary?

In HTML, too.

thx trovster

Or, alternatively, how can I specify that a certain column should be as large as possible?
s/large/wide/

JS isn't over the top for breaking usability and forcing new windows on people.

heh

any suggestions for a good js "open new window" files?

?

i don't know js so i'm going to have to find a script

a href="http://foo.bar" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;"Go to Foo!/a
first google result

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/standards-compliant-world/3

oh i'm looking at something else, now that i'm reading it it's way overly complicated

$('a[@rel^=external]').click();

do I understand that correctly; that script just dynamically adds the target attribute to feel the validator?
*fool

Erm, heh.
No. It's not just to fool the validator.

but it still uses a depracated (invalid even) attribute!?

ZOMG.

not really

i think it is due to what twkm said about caching
:/

there's all sorts of factors
run the function a few thousand (or million) times

heh, okay
Chris:
2682919848
268

heh

interesting

of course you've got the overhead of the loop
but that shouldn't be very high

well, i don't time the loop
:P

how do you avoid timing the loop?

i time the function only

Hi.

how?

hi

Duplicate symbol: .strlen" mean?

for(i = 0; i 10000000; i++){
delta += t_find_dnc(2, test10, 10);
}

ah

where i make the t_find_dnc return the time it takes
one = __rdtsc();
ret = find_dnc(val, arr, len);
two = __rdtsc();
and it returns two-one

naturally, so you've got some overheads there

yes

possibly as big as the loop code

well, let me try :3

you could do a wee bit of unrolling, too
but not too much

Oo
you're right
2698596792
269

cpus are quite good at looping

2085001884
208
wow
61 ticks less

well, a sensible compiler should have reduced that loop to a single instruction

i use VC++ 2008

shrug